Topic:         GROUPS OF THE PEOPLE CONNECTED WITH AGRICULTURE IN DADU DISTRICT ZAMINDARS, HARIS AND OTHER GROUPS, ORGANIZATION OF –

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   Questions and Answers.

1. G. M. SAYED (Muhammadan Rural−Dadu South): Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge please state: −

  Is it a fact that there are the following chief groups of people connected with agriculture: −

Zamindars,

Haris,

Cattle-owners,

Kasbis,

Laborers?

Is it a fact that all of these are backward and disorganized?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:

(1) Yes.

All zamindars are not backward.  Many of them are enlightened and a very large number are educated.   The other four classes are generally considered backward classes.   Zamindars are not disorganized.   They have organized Associations of their own almost in every taluka.   Some awakening is also noticed in the Hari class, e.g., in the Karachi taluka where they have organized an Association.   It is not known if the other three classes have organizations of their own.

1. G. M. SAYED : May I know from the Honorable the Chief Minister as to the source from which he obtained information for the replied given, particularly with reference to the statement that the zamindars are not backward ?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:

I find they have organized associations.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   The answer says that all zamindars are not backward.   Some only are.   That is the answer.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable the Minister in charge whether the Government have taken any steps to organize the backward classes? I mean those four classes whom they have considered as backward.   I want to know what steps the Government has taken for organization of the backward classes.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: In what way, in your opinion, are they backward?

1. G. M. SAYED: They are not educated.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   It is up to these classes to get themselves and their children educated.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question is what steps the Government has taken for forming these classes into associations.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   In other words you are asking:  Is it not part of the duty of the Government to organize them into associations?

1. G. M. SAYED: Government duty is everything.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   I do not know whether it is part of the duty of the Government to organize them into associations.

1. G. M. SAYED: The present question in its previous form was disallowed, and therefore I put this question.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   It was disallowed probably for the reason that it is not part of the Government’s function to organize them into associations.

1. G. M. SAYED: Are the Government aware that the Madras Government have appointed one officer to organize the masses?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I am not aware of what is done in Madras.  We in Sind have our agricultural department who are carrying on propaganda work to teach the masses how to carry on agriculture under the best methods of scientific agriculture.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable Minister whether the Government has taken any steps to organize the haris into an association?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:  We will try to ameliorate their condition.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The question is, has the Government taken any steps to create an association for the Hari class−yes or no?

(No answer.)

1. G. M. SAYED: There are 4 classes mentioned in the answer as backward classes which include the laborers. Have the Government taken any steps to organize the laborers?  If so, what are the steps?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The Government has not taken any steps to put them into unions.

1. G. M. SAYED: Does the Honorable Minister say that?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Yes that is what he says.

1. G. M. SAYED: According to the Trade Unions Act, is it not the duty of the Government to organize labor into unions?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The honorable member must know that under the Act quoted by him, it is for the Government to recognize unions which are created and not to create unions themselves.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Is it not a fact that there are many labor unions in the City of Karachi? In the reply it is stated “It is not known if the other three classes have organizations of their own”.  If the Government is aware of the existence of labor unions in the city of Karachi, then why is that reply “It is not know if the other three classes have organizations of their own”?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   The honorable member who put the question has referred to agricultural laborers, zamindars, and haris and so on and so forth.  He does not mean laborers at Karachi.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable Minister if associations of these persons are organized, they will be recognized by Government?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I know of the Tando Jam Zamindars’ Association and the Fuleli Zamindars’ Association.  They are registered and they are recognized.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   If they are registered, they will be recognized.

1. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Are the Zamindars’ Associations recognized after they were registered under the Registration Act?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   It is for you to apply.

1. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: My question is, are the zamindars’ associations, which the Honorable Minister mentioned just now recognized after they were registered?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:  I know of the Tando Jam Zamindars’ Association and the Fuleli Zamindars’ Association. They are registered and they are recognized.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable under what Act they are to be registered?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   If he gives me notice, I will find out.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is it fact that these associations are to be registered under the Companies’ Act?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The Honorable the Minister did not say that.  He said he wants notice.

1. G. M. SAYED: I heard from the Honorable the Chief Minister that they are registered under the Companies Act. Therefore I want to put a further question.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  He has not said so.

1. G. M. SAYED: As there is a Trade Union Act, may I know from the Honorable the Minister if there is any proposal before the Government for passing any such Act for organizing such associations on the basis of trade unions?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  How can the Government give an answer without considering the Act, on the spur of the moment?

1. R. K. SIDHWA: Is it not a fact that under the Trade Union Act no zamindari association could be registered?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  You have been given the privilege of moving a Bill that these associations shall be recognized. You have got all the information. What else do you want?

[Proceeding of Sindh Assembly, Tuesday, the 24^th August 1937] / (p. 1, 2 & 3)

DISPOSAL OF BARRAGE LANDS.

1. G. M. SAYED (Muhammadan Rural―Dadu South): Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge please state―

Whether there are certain rules framed or instructions issued by the Government for the disposal of lands within the Barrage area on the following points:―

The rates of different classes of land?

Who fixes the classes?

Can a Revenue Officer change the class already fixed?

What is the time or limit fixed for the forfeiture of the land taken on installment system in negligence of paying some installments?

Is the Revenue Officer authorized to give postponement?

What was the limit of area and time up to which and the type of zamindars to whom their naubati-land was to be granted on fifteen rupees malkano per acre?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: (a) No rates for different classes of land have been sanctioned by Government. An average rate of Rs. 100 per acre in the case of perennial areas and Rs. 250 per acre for the rice areas was assumed by Government while preparing the estimates of revenue from land sales and to realize these estimates, the following areas have, however, been fixed by the Revenue Officer, Lloyd Barrage Scheme:―

                                                Perennial areas                                                Rice areas.

A                             . .            . . Rs. 110 to 150                                Rs. 250

B & C                     . .            . . Rs.  50 to   75                                        . . . . .

(b) The classes of land were fixed at the time of classification done under Mr. Baker in 1918.

(c)  Yes, if the inspection of the site demands such a change.

(d) No time-limit is fixed for the forfeiture of the land for non-payment of the installments.

(e) Yes.

(f)  Yes. The arrears of malkano are recoverable as arrears of land revenue according to the terms of grant.

(g)  All naubati land without any limit forfeited in or after 1910-11 was to be restored at Rs. 15 per acre to original occupants or their direct heirs provided that―

 (1) They had not disposed of their entire holding in the deh.

 (2) They had resources equal to the cultivation of their existing holding, and

(3) They applied for restoration of the land before 30^th September 1930 and       paid first installment of malkano before 15^th February 1933.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question No. 1 has not been answered. May I know what the reason is?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The answer for the various parts, (a) to (g) are given, and those are the replies.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question No. (1) Is whether there are certain rules framed or instructions issued by the Government for the disposal of lands within the Barrage areas? No reply has been given.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Minister has given answers to various parts under question 1. Now the honorable member’s question is whether there are any rules framed by the Government on the subject.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: The rules pertain to the classification of lands and prices.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The question is whether there are any definite rules framed by the Government.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: There are certain general instructions to officers.

1. G. M. SAYED: Can they be placed before the Assembly if I give notice?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: They are more for officials’ information and guidance than for the Assembly members.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: In other words, the reply is “No.”

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Does the Government know that any land in the Barrage area has been sold at below Rs. 50 per acre?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Some might have been sold. I am not certain.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: Government cannot take advantage of uncertainty. The Honorable the Minister should give a direct reply.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I want notice.

1. G. M. SAYED: (In Sindhi) In reply to question No. 1 (a), it is stated that no time-limit is fixed for the forfeiture of the land for non-payment of the installments. Does the Honorable Minister know that there have been cases where lands have been forfeited for non-payment or installments?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I am not aware of any such.

1. G. M. SAYED: Referring to answer (f), suppose somebody says that he does not want the land after he has given one or two installment. Are there no instances where they have forced recovery of the grant?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: Is it in regard to the future installments or those which have already fallen due?

1. G. M. SAYED: Is one allowed to give up the land, if one wants to do so, even though there are no arrears of installments?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Supposing a man takes land and he pays one or two installments. After two years, after taking whatever benefit he can, he says “Well, I don’t want the land. I am not going to pay the arrears.” In such circumstances he won’t be allowed to give up the land.

1. G. M. SAYED: When there are no arrears, does the Government forces him to retain the land even if he wishes to give it up?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I cannot say at present.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know, in the absence of rules, what is the procedure to be followed? We have been told that instructions cannot be placed before the Assembly. On what question can we give the Honorable the Minister notice to ascertain the exact position?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: I have not followed your question.

1. G. M. SAYED: I want to know whether there are any instances where, in spite of the men’s request for the forfeiture of the grant, the recovery of installments is forced from them as land revenue.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: If you want to get those instances, you had better give him notice.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If the honorable member is a little more definite and gives me notice. I will be prepared to answer.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: I have not been able to understand the question myself.

PIR ILLAHI BAKSH:  A man gets permanent land. He pays assessment throughout. There is no chance of his losing his land. Other installments are still due. When money is payable by installments, he pays installments. There are no land arrears. There are arrears of payment of malkano. Under those circumstances, if a man is prepared to give up land after paying regularly one or two installments, is he still compelled to pay the rest of the installments and no forfeiture is allowed?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: As soon as he buys land, he enters into a contract for 10 years, which he should fulfill.

PIR ILLAHI BAKSH:  The kabuliat shows that if he does not pay any installments, the Government will forfeit the deposit and cancel the sale. That is the condition. Is there any such thing that he will be compelled to pay all the installments?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is a matter that can be discussed on a resolution.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If he gives notice of specific instances, I will find out.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The question hour is over.

[30 August 1937] / (P.25, 26, 27, 28 & 29)

DEFICIENCY OF BOOKS ON SINDHI LITERATURE.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge pleases state (a) whether it is a fact that there was a Government Book Depot in Sind which used to print and publish books on the literature and law?

                (b)          Is it a fact that the Book Depot has been closed since long?

                (c)           Is it a fact that there is a deficiency of books of literature in sindhi?

(d)          Is it a fact that there is no other agency helped by Government for this purpose?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH:

(a) There was a Government Book Depot at which books on several school subjects were published. The Depot did not publish any books on law.

                (b)          It has been closed since 1923.

(c)           Sindhi is not very rich in literature. But this deficiency is not due to the closing of the Book Depot.

(d)          No. Government allots Rs. 600 every year for the encouragement of Sindhi literature, prizes being awarded to the authors of meritorious books.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is there any proposal before the Government for the re-opening of the Book Depot?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: I do not think there is any demand for it. It will be an unnecessary expense.

1. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable the Chief Minister in reply to question (d) has said that Sindhi is not very rich in literature. May I know from him what steps the Government is taking to enrich it?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: For the encouragement of Sindhi literature, we are giving prizes to authors.

1. G. M. SAYED: Does Government consider that Rs. 600 every year is sufficient to give encouragement?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is a matter of opinions.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is there any proposal before the Government for increasing this amount?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Well, I cannot tell my honorable friend off-hand. But if there are many authors coming forward, we will consider the question of increasing the grant.

1. G. M. SAYED: Have Government received any application or memorandum in that connection?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Speaking from memory, I do not think we have received any.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is the Government prepared to consider this question favorably?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable the Chief Minister has already said that he will consider the question.

[4 March 1938] / (P.14 & 15)

PURCHASE OF LAND BY NON-SINDHIS.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge please state: ―

Have Government received complaints that the immigration of non-Sindhi haris is creating great embarrassment to the local Sindhi haris?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: No.

1. G. M. SAYED: What is the source of information of Government on which they have based their “N0”?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: The information received from District Officers.

1. G. M. SAYED: All District Officers or one District Officer?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Almost all.

1. G. M. SAYED: Has the Honorable the Minister inquired from the Thar Parkar District?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Yes, we have inquired from almost all the districts.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Is it not a fact that several foreigners have come down and settled in the Thar Parkar District?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Yes, some Punjabis have some and settled down there.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Is it not a fact that not only Punjabis but even Gujeratis have come and settled down there.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Is it not a fact that there is a dearth of haris in Sind?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If you mean Sindhi Haris, the reply is yes.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Is there any report received by Government that there is dearth of haris in Sind?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I have already said that there is a dearth of haris.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: I want to know from the Honorable the Revenue Minister when he received such a report that there is a dearth of haris.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: How can the Honorable the Minister tell the dated of report?

1. DIALMAL DOULATRAM: May I know whether any persons have been coming here from Baluchistan side?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Yes, people do come from Baluchistan side, because it is a border of Sind.

1. POPATLAL A. BHOOPATKAR: Do Government propose to consider giving facilities to haris coming from outside?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: They can be employed here by zamindars.

1. POPATLAL A. BHOOPATKAR: In view of the fact that there is a dearth of Sindhi haris, is it not desirable for the greater prosperity of the Province that facilities should be given to persons coming from outside?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is the matter of opinions.

[4 March 1938] / (P.14 & 15)

RADIO BROADCASTING STATION FOR SIND.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge please state: ―

Whether it has come to the knowledge of Government that there is a great demand from the public for having a broadcasting station for Sind?

Has it come to their knowledge that the Registrar of the Co-operative Department has prepared a scheme and collected funds for the purpose?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:

No.

The Registrar, Co-operative Societies, Sind, had prepared a scheme for starting a radio broadcasting station for the benefit of the rural population of Sind, but has not collected funds for the reason that the scheme has been kept in abeyance pending revision of the rules by the Government of India on the subject.

1. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable the Minister’s reply is “No” to my question (a). May I know on what authority the Honorable the Minister says “No”? What are the bases of his saying that there is no demand from the public for having a broadcasting station for Sind?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: I do not follow the honorable member.

1. G. M. SAYED: In reply to my question (a), the Honorable the Minister has said “No”. May I know what is the authority on which the Honorable the Minister has said “No”?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: On this authority that I have received no such application so far from any individual.

1. G. M. SAYED: I have not asked about any individual, but I have mentioned about the demand from the public. Has this demand not come to his knowledge from either the Press or even the Sind Provincial Co-operative Bank?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That may be incidental, but no specific demand has been made from the Honorable the Minister.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: The Registrar of Co-operative Societies had submitted a scheme.

1. G. M. SAYED: Does that mean that there is no public demand?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: It has not come to the knowledge of the Honorable Minister. The honorable member has put the question whether it has come to the knowledge of Government that there is a great demand from the public for having a broadcasting station for Sind.

1. G. M. SAYED: There is the resolution of the Sind Provincial Co-operative Bank and an agitation in the paper. What else should constitute public demand?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: You ask the Honorable Minister whether he has received any resolution from such bodies.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know whether he has received any resolution from any public body or bank?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I cannot tell him that. But we have received a scheme from the Registrar of Co-operative Societies.

1. G. M. SAYED: When the Honorable Minister says does not know whether he has received any resolution or not, then how does he say that there is no public demand?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Minister’s reply is that he has not received any representation from the public on this question, but the Registrar of Co-operative Societies has on his own initiative prepared a scheme.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, my definite question is whether he has received any representation from any pubic body.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Minister has replied in the negative.

1. G. M. SAYED: He has said that he does not know. He does not say definitely that he has not received any representation.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: You can easily understand that. When he says he does not know, it means that he has not received any representation.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Sir, in reply to (b) it is stated “pending revision of rules by the Government of India on the subject.” May I know for what purpose this scheme has been kept in abeyance because the Government of India rules have nothing to do with it?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is inferential.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: For what purpose has it been held in abeyance?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: Because the rules are to be revised by the Government of India.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Does that mean that Government of India wills subsidies for this broadcasting station?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That does not arise.

[7 March 1938] / (P. 7, 8, 9 & 10)

INCREASE IN STRAY DOGS.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will Government be pleased to inform this House whether ―

It has come to their notice that the number of stray dogs is enormously increasing in villages and causing great nuisance?

Has it come to their knowledge that many persons are bitten every year?

Do they know that when police authorities are requested to remedy this evil, they plead shortage of poison, and heavy work leaves them no time to take special measure to remedy this nuisance?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: (a) to (c) No such complaints have been received.

[7 March 1938] / (P. 10)

QUESTIONS & ANSWERS.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Questions.

THE SECRETARY:   Honorable Member Mir Allahdad Khan

(No reply).

THE SECRETARY:   Honorable member MR. G. M. SAYED.

RELIGIOUS TRUSTS IN SIND.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge be pleased to state−

• Whether it is a fact that there exist various trusts for religious, charitable and other purposes for the benefit of various communities in this Province?
• If the reply to (a) is in the affirmative, whether Government have considered the desirability of creating a separate department for the purpose of registration and control of trust properties to prevent and guard against their miss-application?

 THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:  

• The answer is in the affirmative.
• As the existing law is working satisfactorily, there is no need to create a separate department for this purpose.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable the Minister what is the authority on which he has based his reply that the present law is working satisfactorily?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  That is the information of the Honorable the Minister.

1. G. M. SAYED: Information from what source?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  He must have got the information from the reports of the department.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, I am asking from the Honorable the Minister.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   Yes, that is the answer.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Are all these charitable trusts registered?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   There are so many trusts; there may be hundreds of them.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: My question is with regard to public trusts.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If the honorable member wants to know about any specific instance, he must give notice.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The honorable member’s question is whether public trusts are registered by Government. If the Honorable Minister knows, he might reply.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I cannot tell him off-hand.

1. G. M. SAYED: When the Honorable Minister is not certain whether all the trusts are registered or not, then how does he say that the law is working satisfactorily?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  One is different from the other. The honorable member should ask his question with regard to the working of the law.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, I have asked “Whether it is a fact that there exist various trusts for religious, charitable and other purposes for the benefit of various communities in this province.” My second question was “If the reply to (a) is in the affirmative, whether Government have considered the desirability of creating a separate department for the purpose of registration and control of trust properties to prevent and guard against their miss-application.” Now, the Honorable Minister says he does not know whether certain trusts are registered or not. When they are not registered, it goes without saying that they are not working satisfactorily.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  As I told the honorable member, one is different from the other.  The point is whether trusts are registered, and the Honorable Minister is not aware of that at present. He wants notice. His information is that under the present system in vogue, they are working satisfactorily.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, the present system is that they should be registered. I have asked the question “Whether the Government have considered the desirability of creating a separate department” because I knew that the trusts were not working satisfactorily. Now the Honorable Minister says that his information is that they working satisfactorily. Therefore I want to know, when he does not know whether some trusts are registered, how he says that they working satisfactorily.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   May I ask the honorable member which trusts are not working satisfactorily?

1. G. M. SAYED: It is for the Honorable Minister to say which trusts are not working satisfactorily.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I say they are all working satisfactorily.

1. G. M. SAYED: I want to know whether all trusts are registered or not.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The Honorable Minister does not know. I cannot help the honorable member.  The Honorable Minister has claimed notice.  If the honorable member asks any specific question, he will reply.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, when the Honorable Minister does not know whether all the trusts are registered, it is quite clear that they are not working satisfactorily because the Law of Registration requires that they must be registered.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Unfortunately, the question is argumentative.  The honorable member should put a definite question.

MIR GHULAMALI TALPUR:  (In Sindhi) Will the Honorable Minister let me know whether the Mussalman Wakf Act and the Charitable Endowments Act are in force in Sind?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   We are making rules under the Bombay Wakf Act.

1. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable Minister has stated that the law is working satisfactorily. I want to know which is in force.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   Sir, I will just tell him after seeing the files.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  If the Honorable Minister does not know, he must ask for notice. I cannot allow the time of the House to be wasted like that.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I know, sir.  (After turning over the file) There is the Mussalmaans Wakf Act of 1923.  Then there is the Trust Act of 1882, the Public Trusts Registration Act and the Charitable and Religious Trusts Act.

1. G. M. SAYED: Which department is in charge of the trusts?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   The District and other courts.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from what department the Honorable Minister has sent for this information?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I have got this information from my own department.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, the courts are under the charge of Honorable the Chief Minister.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  It is argumentative.  What does the honorable member want to know?

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, since the courts are in charge of the Honorable the Chief Minister, how has this question been replied to by the Honorable Minister for Revenue?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Questions relating to courts can be replied to by the Honorable the Revenue Minister.

SIND INDUSTRIES

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge is pleased to state:

The number of Textile Mills, Glass Factories, Woolen Mills, and Biscuits Factories, together with their working capital and output during 1936-37?

Have Government considered the desirability of encouraging these industries by way of subsidies?

THE HONOURABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH:

(a) So far as Government are aware, there are seven Textile Mills (including three hosiery mills, one of which produces woolen goods) and on Biscuit Factory. There are no other woolen mills or glass factories in Sind.

The working capital of the Sind Textile Mills, Karachi is Rs.50, 000 and their normal annual output at present is 1,800 bales of yarn.  The remaining concerns are unwilling to disclose any information regarding their working capital and output.

(b) No, but Government has issued instructions to Government Departments using yarn to patronize the Sind Textile Mills for their supplies of this article.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question No. (b) Was “Have the Government considered the desirability of encouraging these industries by way of subsidies”? And Government has replied “No”.   As to the rest, they have not replied.

THE HONOURABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Because they have not considered it necessary.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know the reason why it is so?

THE HONOURABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Because we have no money.

 [Friday 11 March 1938] / (p. 1)

ARTICLES APPEARING IN “KHADE-MAL ISLAM” AND “DAILY ALWAHID”

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge be please to state―

Whether the attention of the Government has been drawn to the articles in English in the paper “Khad-ma Islam” Mirpurkhas, on 14^th June and 26^th November 1937, and to the article in Sindhi on page 3 of the “Daily Alwahid” dated 16^th January 1938 with the heading “Sind’s Judicial Department” regarding the District Court, Hyderabad?            

Whether it is a fact that in September last there was any enquiry against the Sheristedar of the District Court, Hyderabad, regarding the use of Government leather and taking private work under compulsion from the Court’s book binder?

Whether it is a fact that the binder who is a Muslim had made his statements before the District Judge, by taking the Holy Quran?

Whether it is a fact that the District Accountant remains in-charge of the Government leather?

Whether it is a fact that certain private books were actually caught by the District Judge, Hyderabad, bound by the book binder?

Whether it is a fact that on the next day of the enquiry the Sheristedar of the Court had produced before the Judge a number of shoes, bags and champals, made or repaired by the book binder?

Whether it is fact that now a register is being maintained in the District Court, Hyderabad, for recording the daily outturn of the book binder?

Whether such registers are being maintained in other Courts?

Whether it is a fact that the Honorable Judicial Commissioner of Sind at present is not empowered to transfer Sheristedars from one Court to the other?

Whether it is fact that Mr. Hotchand, Sheristedar in 1933, due to complaints, was transferred at once by the Government of Bombay?

Whether any report has been made by the District Judge to the Honorable Judicial Commissioner has taken any action in the matter?

Whether the District Judge, Hyderabad, has recommended the transfer of the Sheristedar?

What action has the Government of Sind taken after the publication of the articles in the papers in this matter?                  

THE HONOURABLE K.B. ALLAH BAKHSH: 

(a) to (d) Yes.

(e) No. Only one small book was found with the book-binder. He said it was given to him for binding by a clerk.

 (f) No.  A small card-board box was produced which the book-binder said had been made by him for the Sheristedar out of materials purchased outside by the Sheristedar and for which work remuneration had been paid to the book-binder. The box is said to have been 3 to 4 years ago.

 (g) Yes.

 (h) No.

 (I) Yes.

 (j) The Government of Bombay transferred Mir. Hotchand on the recommendation of the Honorable Judicial Commissioner who, after reading it, came to the conclusion that no action was called for.

(k) The District Judge made a confidential report to the Honorable Judicial Commissioner who, after reading it, came to the conclusion that no action was called for.

 (l) No.

 (m) Government does not think it necessary to take any action in the matter.

[19 January 1939] / (P.30, 31 32)

STATISTICAL INFORMATION REGARDING SUITS FILED IN CIVIL COURTS.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge is pleased to place on the Assembly Table, the following figures of Civil Suits for the last five years filed in Civil Courts in Sind against agriculturalists: ―

Number of suits below the amount of Rs. 500.

Number of suits below the amount of Rs. 1,000.

[19 January 1939] / (P. 25)

Topic:  Groups of the people connected with agriculture in Dadu District:

ZAMINDARS, HARIS AND OTHER GROUPS:

ORGANIZATION OF –

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   Questions and Answers.

1. G. M. SAYED (Muhammadan Rural−Dadu South): Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge please state :−

• Is it a fact that there are the following chief groups of people connected with agriculture :−

• Zamindars,
• Haris,
• Cattle-owners,
• Kasbis,
• Labourers ?
• Is it a fact that all of these are backward and disorganized?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:

(1) Yes.

• All zamindars are not backward. Many of them are enlightened and a very large number are educated.   The other four classes are generally considered backward classes.   Zamindars are not disorganized.   They have organized Associations of their own almost in every taluka.   Some awakening is also noticed in the Hari class, e.g., in the Karachi taluka where they have organized an Association.   It is not known if the other three classes have organizations of their own.

1. G. M. SAYED : May I know from the Honorable the Chief Minister as to the source from which he obtained information for the replied given, particularly with reference to the statement that the zamindars are not backward ?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:

I find they have organized associations.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   The answer says that all zamindars are not backward.   Some only are.   That is the answer.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable the Minister in charge whether the Government have taken any steps to organize the backward classes? I mean those four classes whom they have considered as backward.   I want to know what steps the Government have taken for organization of the backward classes.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: In what way, in your opinion, are they backward?

1. G. M. SAYED: They are not educated.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   It is up to these classes to get themselves and their children educated.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question is what steps the Government have taken for forming these classes into associations.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   In other words you are asking :  Is it not part of the duty of the Government to organize them into associations ?

1. G. M. SAYED: Government duty is everything.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   I do not know whether it is part of the duty of the Government to organize them into associations.

1. G. M. SAYED: The present question in its previous form was disallowed, and therefore I put this question.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:   It was disallowed probably for the reason that it is not part of the Government’s function to organize them into associations.

1. G. M. SAYED: Are the Government aware that the Madras Government have appointed one officer to organize the masses?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I am not aware of what is done in Madras.  We in Sind have our agricultural department who are carrying on propaganda work to teach the masses how to carry on agriculture under the best methods of scientific agriculture.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable Minister whether the Government have taken any steps to organize the haris into an association?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:  We will try to ameliorate their condition.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The question is, has the Government taken any steps to create an association for the Hari class−yes or no?

                No answer.

1. G. M. SAYED: There are 4 classes mentioned in the answer as backward classes which include the laborers. Have the Government taken any steps to organize the laborers?  If so, what are the steps?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The Government has not taken any steps to put them into unions.

1. G. M. SAYED: Does the Honorable Minister say that?

                                THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Yes That is what he says.

1. G. M. SAYED: According to the Trade Unions Act, is it not the duty of the Government to organize labor into unions?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The honorable member must know that under the Act  quoted by him, it is for the Government to recognize unions which are created and not to create unions themselves.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Is it not a fact that there are many labor unions in the City of Karachi? In the reply it is stated “It is not known if the other three classes have organizations of their own”.  If the Government is aware of the existence of labor unions in the city of Karachi, then why is that reply “It is not know if the other three classes have organizations of their own”?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR::   The honorable member who put the question has referred to agricultural labourers, zamindars, haris and so on and so forth.  He does not mean laborers at Karachi.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable Minister if associations of these persons are organized, they will be recognized by Government?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I know of the Tando Jam Zamindars’ Association and the Fuleli Zamindars’ Association.  They are registered and they are recognised .

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   If they are registered, they will be recognized.

1. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Are the Zamindars’ Associations recognized after they were registered under the Registration Act?

                                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   It is for you to apply.

1. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: My question is, are the zamindars’ associations, which the Honorable Minister mentioned just now recognized after they were registered?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:  I know of the Tando Jam Zamindars’ Association and the Fuleli Zamindars’ Assocaition. They are registered and they are recognized.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honourable under what Act they are to be registered?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   If he gives me notice, I will find out.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is it fact that these associations are to be registered under the Companies’ Act?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The Honorable the Minister did not say that.  He said he wants notice.

1. G. M. SAYED: I heard from the Honorable the Chief Minister that they are registered under the Companies Act. Therefore I want to put a further question.

                                THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  He has not said so.

1. G. M. SAYED: As there is a Trade Union Act, may I know from the Honorable the Minister if there is any proposal before the Government for passing any such Act for organizing such associations on the basis of trade unions?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  How can the Government give an answer without considering the Act, on the spur of the moment?

1. R. K. SIDHWA: Is it not a fact that under the Trade Union Act no zamindari association could be registered?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  You have been given the privilege of moving a Bill that these associations shall be recognized. You have got all the information. What else do you want?

[Proceeding of Sindh Assembly, Tuesday, the 24^th August 1937] / (p. 1, 2 & 3)

DISPOSAL OF BARRAGE LANDS.

1. G. M. SAYED (Muhammadan Rural―Dadu South): Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge please state―

• Whether there are certain rules framed or instructions issued by the Government for the disposal of lands within the Barrage area on the following points:―
• The rates of different classes of land?
• Who fixes the classes?
• Can a Revenue Officer change the class already fixed?
• What is the time or limit fixed for the forfeiture of the land taken on installment system in negligence of paying some installments?
• Is the Revenue Officer authorized to give postponement?
• What was the limit of area and time up to which and the type of zamindars to whom their naubati-land was to be granted on fifteen rupees malkano per acre?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: (a) No rates for different classes of  land have been sanctioned by Government. An average rate of Rs. 100 per acre in the case of perennial areas and Rs. 250 per acre for the rice areas was assumed by Government while preparing the estimates of revenue from land sales and to realize these estimates, the following areas have, however, been fixed by the Revenue Officer, Lloyd Barrage Scheme:―

                                                Perennial areas                                                Rice areas.

A                             . .            . . Rs. 110 to  150                               Rs. 250

B & C                     . .            . . Rs.  50 to   75                                        . . . . .

(b) The classes of land were fixed at the time of classification done under Mr. Baker in 1918.

(c)  Yes, if the inspection of the site demands such a change.

(d) No time-limit is fixed for the forfeiture of the land for non-payment of the installments.

(e) Yes.

(f)  Yes. The arrears of malkano are recoverable as arrears of land revenue according to the terms of grant.

(g)  All naubati land without any limit forfeited in or after 1910-11 was to be restored at Rs. 15 per acre to original occupants or their direct heirs provided that―

                (1)  they had not disposed of their entire holding in the deh.

                (2)  they had resources equal to the cultivation of their existing holding, and

(3) they applied for restoration of the land before 30^th September 1930 and       paid first installment of malkano before 15^th February 1933.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question No. 1 has not been answered. May I know what is the reason?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The answer for the various parts, (a) to (g) are given, and those are the replies.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question No. (1) is whether there are certain rules framed or instructions issued by the Government for the disposal of lands within the Barrage areas. No reply has been given.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Minister has given answers to various parts under question 1. Now the honorable member’s question is whether there are any rules framed by the Government on the subject.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: The rules pertain to the classification of lands and prices.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The question is whether there are any definite rules framed by the Government.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: There are certain general instructions to officers.

1. G. M. SAYED: Can they be placed before the Assembly if I give notice?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: They are more for officials’ information and guidance than for the Assembly members.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: In other words, the reply is “No.”

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Does the Government know that any land in the Barrage area have been sold at below Rs. 50 per acre?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Some might have been sold. I am not certain.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: Government cannot take advantage of uncertainty. The Honorable the Minister should give a direct reply.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I want notice.

1. G. M. SAYED: (In Sindhi) In reply to question No. 1 (a), it is stated that no time-limit is fixed for the forfeiture of the land for non-payment of the installments. Does the Honorable Minister know that there have been cases where lands have been forfeited for non-payment or installments?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I am not aware of any such.

1. G. M. SAYED: Referring to answer (f), suppose somebody says that he does not want the land after he has given one or two installment. Are there no instances where they have forced recovery of the grant?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: Is it in regard to the future installments or those which have already fallen due?

1. G. M. SAYED: Is one allowed to give up the land, if one wants to do so, even though there are no arrears of installments?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Supposing a man takes land and he pays one or two installments. After two years, after taking whatever benefit he can, he says “Well, I don’t want the land. I am not going to pay the arrears.” In such circumstances he won’t be allowed to give up the land.

1. G. M. SAYED: When there are no arrears, does the Government forces him to retain the land even if he wishes to give it up?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I cannot say at present.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know, in the absence of rules, what is the procedure to be followed? We have been told that instructions cannot be placed before the Assembly. On what question can we give the Honorable the Minister notice to ascertain the exact position?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: I have not followed your question.

1. G. M. SAYED: I want to know whether there are any instances where, in spite of the men’s request for the forfeiture of the grant, the recovery of installments is forced from them as land revenue.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: If you want to get those instances, you had better give him notice.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If the honorable member is a little more definite and gives me notice. I will be prepared to answer.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: I have not been able to understand the question myself.

PIR ILLAHI BAKSH:  A man gets permanent land. He pays assessment throughout. There is no chance of his losing his land. Other installments are still due. When money is payable by installments, he pays installments. There are no land arrears. There are arrears of payment of malkano. Under those circumstances, if a man is prepared to give up land after paying regularly one or two installments, is he still compelled to pay the rest of the installments and no forfeiture is allowed?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: As soon as he buys land, he enters into a contract for 10 years, which he should fulfill.

PIR ILLAHI BAKSH:  The kabuliat shows that if he does not pay any installments, the Government will forfeit the deposit and cancel the sale. That is the condition. Is there any such thing that he will be compelled to pay all the installments?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is a matter that can be discussed on a resolution.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If he gives notice of specific instances, I will find out.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The question hour is over.

[30 August 1937] / (P.25, 26, 27, 28 & 29)

Deficiency of Books on Sindhi Literature.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge please state (a) whether it is a fact that there was a Government Book Depot in Sind which used to print and publish books on the literature and law?

                (b)          Is it a fact that the Book Depot has been closed since long?

                (c)           Is it a fact that there is a deficiency of books of literature in sindhi?

(d)          Is it a fact that there is no other agency helped by Government for this purpose?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: (a) There was a Government Book Depot at which books on several school subjects were published. The Depot did not publish any books on law.

                (b)          It has been closed since 1923.

(c)           Sindhi is not very rich in literature. But this deficiency is not due to the closing of the Book Depot.

(d)          No. Government allots Rs. 600 every year for the encouragement of Sindhi literature, prizes being awarded to the authors of meritorious books.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is there any proposal before the Government for the re-opening of the Book Depot?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: I do not think there is any demand for it. It will be an unnecessary expense.

1. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable the Chief Minister in reply to question (d) has said that Sindhi is not very rich in literature. May I know from him what steps the Government are taking to enrich it?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: For the encouragement of Sindhi literature, we are giving prizes to authors.

1. G. M. SAYED: Does Government consider that Rs. 600 every year is sufficient to give encouragement?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is a matter of opinions.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is there any proposal before the Government for increasing this amount?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Well, I cannot tell my honorable friend off-hand. But if there are many authors coming forward, we will consider the question of increasing the grant.

1. G. M. SAYED: Have Government received any application or memorandum in that connection?

THE HONORABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Speaking from memory, I do not think we have received any.

1. G. M. SAYED: Is the Government prepared to consider this question favorably?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable the Chief Minister has already said that he will consider the question.

[4 March 1938] / (P.14 & 15)

Purchase of Land by Non-Sindhis.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge please state:―

Have Government received complaints that the immigration of non-Sindhi haris is creating great embarrassment to the local Sindhi haris?

                                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: No.

1. G. M. SAYED: What is the source of information of Government on which they have based their “N0”?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: The information received from District Officers.

1. G. M. SAYED: All District Officers or one District Officer?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Almost all.

1. G. M. SAYED: Has the Honorable the Minister inquired from the Thar Parkar District?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Yes, we have inquired from almost all the districts.

                PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Is it not a fact that several foreigners have come down and settled in the Thar Parkar District?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Yes, some Punjabis have some and settled down there.

                PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Is it not a fact that not only Punjabis but even Gujeratis have come and settled down there.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Is it not a fact that there is a dearth of haris in Sind?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If you mean Sindhi Haris, the reply is yes.

                PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Is there any report received by Government that there is dearth of haris in Sind?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I have already said that there is a dearth of haris.

                PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: I want to know from the Honorable the Revenue Minister when he received such a report that there is a dearth of haris.

                THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: How can the Honorable the Minister tell the dated of report?

1. DIALMAL DOULATRAM: May I know whether any persons have been coming here from Baluchistan side?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Yes, people do come from Baluchistan side, because it is a border of Sind.

1. POPATLAL A. BHOOPATKAR: Do Government propose to consider giving facilities to haris coming from outside?

                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: They can be employed here by zamindars.

1. POPATLAL A. BHOOPATKAR: In view of the fact that there is a dearth of Sindhi haris, is it not desirable for the greater prosperity of the Province that facilities should be given to persons coming from outside?

                THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is the matter of opinions.

RADIO BROADCASTING STATION FOR SIND.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge please state: ―

• Whether it has come to the knowledge of Government that there is a great demand from the public for having a broadcasting station for Sind?
• Has it come to their knowledge that the Registrar of the Co-operative Department has prepared a scheme and collected funds for the purpose?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:

• No.
• The Registrar, Co-operative Societies, Sind, had prepared a scheme for starting a radio broadcasting station for the benefit of the rural population of Sind, but has not collected funds for the reason that the scheme has been kept in abeyance pending revision of the rules by the Government of India on the subject.

1. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable the Minister’s reply is “No” to my question (a). May I know on what authority the Honorable the Minister says “No”? What are the bases of his saying that there is no demand from the public for having a broadcasting station for Sind?

                  THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: I do not follow the honorable member.

1. G. M. SAYED: In reply to my question (a), the Honorable the Minister has said “No”. May I know what is the authority on which the Honorable the Minister has said “No”?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: On this authority that I have received no such application so far from any individual.

1. G. M. SAYED: I have not asked about any individual, but I have mentioned about the demand from the public. Has this demand not come to his knowledge from either the Press or even the Sind Provincial Co-operative Bank?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That may be incidental, but no specific demand has been made from the Honorable the Minister.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: The Registrar of Co-operative Societies had submitted a scheme.

1. G. M. SAYED: Does that mean that there is no public demand?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: It has not come to the knowledge of the Honorable Minister. The honorable member has put the question whether it has come to the knowledge of Government that there is a great demand from the public for having a broadcasting station for Sind.

1. G. M. SAYED: There is the resolution of the Sind Provincial Co-operative Bank and an agitation in the paper. What else should constitute public demand?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: You ask the Honorable Minister whether he has received any resolution from such bodies.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know whether he has received any resolution from any public body or bank?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I cannot tell him that. But we have received a scheme from the Registrar of Co-operative Societies.

1. G. M. SAYED: When the Honorable Minister says does not know whether he has received any resolution or not, then how does he say that there is no public demand?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Minister’s reply is that he has not received any representation from the public on this question, but the Registrar of Co-operative Societies has on his own initiative prepared a scheme.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, my definite question is whether he has received any representation from any pubic body.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Minister has replied in the negative.

1. G. M. SAYED: He has said that he does not know. He does not say definitely that he has not received any representation.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: You can easily understand that. When he says he does not know, it means that he has not received any representation.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Sir, in reply to (b) it is stated “pending revision of rules by the Government of India on the subject.” May I know for what purpose this scheme has been kept in abeyance because the Government of India rules have nothing to do with it?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That is inferential.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: For what purpose has it been held in abeyance?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: Because the rules are to be revised by the Government of India.

PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Does that mean that Government of India will subsidies for this broadcasting station?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER: That does not arise.

[7 March 1938] / (P. 7, 8, 9 & 10)

Increase in Stray Dogs.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will Government be pleased to inform this House whether ―

• It has come to their notice that the number of stray dogs is enormously increasing in villages and causing great nuisance?
• Has it come to their knowledge that many persons are bitten every year?
• Do they know that when police authorities are requested to remedy this evil, they plead shortage of poison, and heavy work leaves them no time to take special measure to remedy this nuisance?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: (a) to (c) No such complaints have been received.

[7 March 1938] / (P. 10)

Questions & Answers.

                                THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Questions.

                                THE SECRETARY:   Honourable Member Mir Allahdad Khan

                (No reply).

                                THE SECRETARY:   Honourable member Mr. G. M. Sayed.

Religious Trusts in Sind.

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable Minister-in-charge be pleased to state−

• Whether it is a fact that there exist various trusts for religious, charitable and other purposes for the benefit of various communities in this Province?
• If the reply to (a) is in the affirmative, whether Government have considered the desirability of creating a separate department for the purpose of registration and control of trust properties to prevent and guard against their mis-application?

                                THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:  

• The answer is in the affirmative.
• As the existing law is working satisfactorily, there is no need to create a separate department for this purpose.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from the Honorable the Minister what is the authority on which he has based his reply that the present law is working satisfactorily?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  That is the information of the Honorable the Minister.

1. G. M. SAYED: Information from what source?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  He must have got the information from the reports of the department.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, I am asking from the Honorable the Minister.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   Yes, that is the answer.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Are all these charitable trusts registered?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   There are so many trusts; there may be hundreds of them.

1. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: My question is with regard to public trusts.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: If the honorable member wants to know about any specific instance, he must give notice.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The honorable member’s question is whether public trusts are registered by Government. If the Honorable Minister knows, he might reply.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I cannot tell him off-hand.

1. G. M. SAYED: When the Honorable Minister is not certain whether all the trusts are registered or not, then how does he say that the law is working satisfactorily?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  One is different from the other. The honorable member should ask his question with regard to the working of the law.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, I have asked “Whether it is a fact that there exist various trusts for religious, charitable and other purposes for the benefit of various communities in this province.” My second question was “If the reply to (a) is in the affirmative, whether Government have considered the desirability of creating a separate department for the purpose of registration and control of trust properties to prevent and guard against their mis-application.” Now, the Honorable Minister says he does not know whether certain trusts are registered or not. When they are not registered, it goes without saying that they are not working satisfactorily.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  As I told the honorable member, one is different from the other.  The point is whether trusts are registered, and the Honorable Minister is not aware of that at present. He wants notice. His information is that under the present system in vogue, they are working satisfactorily.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, the present system is that they should be registered. I have asked the question”Whether the Government have considered the desirability of creating a separate department” because I knew that the trusts were not working satisfactorily. Now the Honorable Minister says that his information is that they working satisfactorily. Therefore I want to know, when he does not know whether some trusts are registered, how he says that they working satisfactorily.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   May I ask the honorable member which trusts are not working satisfactorily?

1. G. M. SAYED: It is for the Honorable Minister to say which trusts are not working satisfactorily.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: I say they are all working satisfactorily.

1. G. M. SAYED: I want to know whether all trusts are registered or not.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  The Honorable Minister does not know. I cannot help the honorable member.  The Honorable Minister has claimed notice.  If the honorable member asks any specific question, he will reply.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, when the Honorable Minister does not know whether all the trusts are registered, it is quite clear that they are not working satisfactorily because the Law of Registration requires that they must be registered.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Unfortunately, the question is argumentative.  The honorable member should put a definite question.

MIR GHULAMALI TALPUR:  (In Sindhi) Will the Honorable Minister let me know whether the Mussalman Wakf Act and the Charitable Endowments Act are in force in Sind?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   We are making rules under the Bombay Wakf Act.

1. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable Minister has stated that the law is working satisfactorily. I want to know which is in force.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   Sir, I will just tell him after seeing the files.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  If the Honorable Minister does not know, he must ask for notice. I cannot allow the time of the House to be wasted like that.

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I know, sir.  (After turning over the file) There is the Mussalmaans Wakf Act of 1923.  Then there is the Trust Act of 1882, the Public Trusts Registration Act and the Charitable and Religious Trusts Act.

1. G. M. SAYED: Which department is in charge of the trusts?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   The District and other courts.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know from what department the Honorable Minister has sent for this information?

THE HONOURABLE MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR:   I have got this information from my own department.

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, the courts are under the charge of Honorable the Chief Minister.

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  It is argumentative.  What does the honorable member want to know?

1. G. M. SAYED: Sir, since the courts are in charge of the Honorable the Chief Minister, how has this question been replied to by the Honorable Minister for Revenue?

THE HONOURABLE THE SPEAKER:  Questions relating to courts can be replied to by the Honorable the Revenue Minister.

Sind Industries

1. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Minister-in-charge be pleased to state:

• The number of Textile Mills, Glass Factories, Woolen Mills, and Biscuits Factories, together with their working capital and output during 1936-37?
• Have Government considered the desirability of encouraging these industries by way of subsidies?

THE HONOURABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: (a) So far as Government are aware, there are seven Textile Mills (including three hosiery mills, one of which produces woolen goods) and on Biscuit Factory. There are no other woolen mills or glass factories in Sind.

The working capital of the Sind Textile Mills, Karachi is Rs.50,000 and their normal annual output at present is 1,800 bales of yarn.  The remaining concerns are unwilling to disclose any information regarding their working capital and output.

(b) No, but Government has issued instructions to Government Departments using yarn to patronize the Sind Textile Mills for their supplies of this article.

1. G. M. SAYED: My question No. (b) Was “Have the Government considered the desirability of encouraging these industries by way of subsidies”? And Government have replied “No”.   As to the rest, they have not replied.

THE HONOURABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Because they have not considered it necessary.

1. G. M. SAYED: May I know the reason why it is so?

THE HONOURABLE SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Because we have no money.

 [Friday 11 March 1938] / (p. 1)