NO-Confidence Motion against Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh, Premiere, Sindh (1939)
No–confidence Motion against K.B. ALLAH BAKHS SOOMRO was initiated by G.M. Sayed and he in his books, has given reasons and other details about the motion so as to justify his political action. Lot of material is available in Governmental Records to give another story about this political development that took place before and after the moving of this no–confidence motion. The then government of Sindh in his confidential reports send to Viceroy of India has given his comments about the motion. His report are reproduced here:
0n 4th January, 1939, he writes “I have this afternoon had a message to say that in the Sind Legislative Assembly, the new Session of which began to-day, a member of the Muslim Opposition has handed in a notice for moving a motion of “NonConfidence” against my Ministry as a whole. The grounds stated in the Motion are a disapprove of the general policy of the Ministry, though we may assume, I think, that the introduction of the revised rates for the Ministry, though we may assume, I think, that the introduction of the revised rates for the Barrage areas will be the main point of attack. The object of broadening the base of the attack is, I presume, to draw in a few outside votes.
2. My Chief Minister was expecting this Motion, and up to a few days ago he was confident that he would survive provided that the Congress members remained neutral. Since then, however, there has been some display of dissatisfaction among the non-congress Hindus, and now he is not a non confident.
3. Meanwhile negotiation are going on to bring my Chief Minister and the late Chief Minister into agreement, one of the term of which would be that the late Chief Minister Sir Ghulam Hussain, should be admitted to the Ministry while my present Chief Minister should retain his position. I do not know that this is likely to come to anything, and I feel that such an agreement, if reached, would not be likely to be of a lasting nature.
4. My Chief Minister told me that he would ask the Speaker to fix a date a week from now for the discussion of the “No Confidence” Motion, but I now hear that Monday, January 9th, has been fixed. I will give any further information of what happens during the next few days as soon as I have anything reliable to report. My chief Minister has reiterated in me that he has not the least intention of giving may on the question of the barrage rates.” ( L. Graham No. 2 of 1939, Government House Karachi).
On 9th January, in his another Report he writes to Sd. Linlithgow, Viceroy of India, “This is in direct continuation of my letter No.2 dated January 4th. In the last paragraph of that letter I told you that the date fixed for the ‘No Confidence” motion was January 9th. That has now been altered and the debate is to be taken tomorrow, January 10th.
2. Meanwhile the negotiation for a central combination, leaving out the Muslim Leaguers on the the right and the Congress on the left, have been continued and now appear to have reached a stage at which an agreement can be concluded. I have at the suggestion of my Chief Minister had a long talk with Sir Ghulam Hussain, my late Chief Minister had a long talk with Sir Ghulam Hussain, my late Chief Minister; from him I understand that he is so dissatisfied with the attitude of the Muslim League that he is ready to joim my Ministry, bringing with him these of his followers who are not fanatically devoted to the Muslim League. The Consideration for this access of strength to my Ministry is to be an increase in the number of Ministries either to five or six.
3. I think that I have mentioned in previous letters by opinion that an increase in the number of Minister would be desireable in order to broaden the base of the Ministry as a whole and to give my Ministers personally a sense of security which would allow them leisure to formulate and execute a progressive policy instead of leaving them in their present position of tight-rope walkers solely concerned with the problem of remaining in office. I cannot, of course, he sure that the resumption of friendly relations between Allah Bakhsh and Ghulam Hussain will be permanent; but having now had two successive Ministries neither of which was in a position anything effective because of its feeling of insecurity. I think I am justified in making some kind of experiment.
4. Both Allah Bakhsh and Ghulam Hussain assure me that I shall have no further trouble over the assessment. The motion of ‘No Confidence’ is not in the name of Sir Ghulam Hussain, but in that of one of the advanced Muslim Leaguers; and Sir Ghulam Hussain tells me that it is his intention to resign with four or five members from the Opposition Party in the Course of the day or before the motion comes up tomorrow. If that is done, I do not think it will prevent the moving of the motion, but it will ensure its defeat. The present intention of Ghulam Hussain and Allah Bakhsh is that the new Coalition and the increase in the number of the Ministers should not be a short adjournment of the Assembly before taking up consideration of the Budget. The enlarged Ministry will then face the Assembly on the Budget.
5. The minor question whether the enlarged Ministry should consist of five or six Ministers is likely to give some trouble because, if I have a Ministry of four Muslims and two Hindus, as Ghulam Hussain prefers, I maintain the present proportion between the communities; while if I have a Ministry of Five three muslims and two Hindus, the Hindus will have obtained an advance in status. In some ways I should like to get in one Minister from another community, but I cannot say definitely what will happen in this matter. Ghulam Hussain has said that he will happen in this matter. Ghulam Hussain has said that he will very reluctantly agree to a Ministry of five if I cannot see my way to one of six on the other hand, my Hindu Minister says that he is not sure whether he can carry the Hindus with him in support of a Ministry of six. In looking for a compromise, the difficulty is that none of the European would care to be considered for a Ministership as all of them are otherwise engaged; and I have only one other member, a Parsi, who is not either a Muslim or a Hindu.” ( L. Graham No. 10 of 1939, Government House,Karachi).
On 13th January, in his another Report he writes to Sd. Linlithgow, Viceroy of India,” In continuation of my letter No.10 of January 9th I have not much to aid which you will not already have seen in the newspaper regarding the ‘No Confidence’ motion. In a House of sixty members only thirty-nine took part in the division. The Congress Party earned considerable ridicule by remaining neutral, as they were in fact bound to do since the Chief Minister informed them that he was not prepared to postpone giving effect to the revised rates in the Barrage areas.
2. Although the attack on the Ministry may be said to have fizzled out, the debate was not without its value because it produced constructive speeches from the late Chief Minister, Sir Ghulam Hussain, and Mr. Jamshed Mehta, the once famous Mayer of Karachi. Both these speakers urged the necessity for regrouping of the parties in the Assembly in order to achieve a Ministry with a reasonable amount of stability. There is actually no chance attaining that stability without increasing the number of Ministers. Even so, when this is done and whether the Ministry is constituted at five or six and at present my chief Minister favors having the larger number , the Sind Parliament will always be loth, so long as it is mainly composed of reminders, to increase the burden of taxation on their close.” ( L. Graham No. 17 of 1939, Government House,Karachi).
In receipt of the above sited report, on 16th January, Lord linlithgow, Viceroy of India replied L. Graham, the governor of Sindh as under:
“Many thanks for your letters of the 4th and 9th January, Not 2 and 10, about your ministerial situation. I did not answer for there seemed to me to be nothing to be done at the moment save to await developments. I congratulate you most heartily on the development which have, as I gather from the Press, since taken place; for I gather that your Assembly has thrown out, by 32 votes to 7, Mr. Syed’s Motion of want of confidence in the Premiere.
2. I am not quite clear from the press report read with your letters as to what Ghulam Hussain’s position in all this matter is. He abstained, I gather, from the voting, and it is to the good, of course, that he did not go into opposition against your Chief Minister; and presumably he thought the safer course from his own point of view was to abstain from voting at all. At the same time, given the critical character of this division, one cannot but feel that abstention from support ( even if identical with abstention from opposition) is not a very good preliminary to joining the Ministry whose fate was in issue.
3. I look forward with great interest to the development as regards the increase in the strength of your Ministry, and I trust sincerely that Allah Bakhsh and Ghulam Hussain are right in thinking that we shall have no further trouble on the vital question of re-assessment, on which we both regards it as so important to stand firm”.(Karapur 16th January,1939 Lord Linlithgow, Viceroy of India.)
The motion was move in the Sindh legislative Assembly and proceedings of the same are reproduced as under:
Proceedings of the Sindh legislative Assembly:
(Date: 10th January 1939)
Mr. G.M SAYED: Sir, I beg to move: -
“That this Assembly expresses is want of confidence in the policy of The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH Muhammad Umer, Chief Minister, and Government of Sind.”
THE HONORABLE SPEAKER: The motion before the House is: -
“That this Assembly expresses it’s wanted of confidence in the policy of The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH Muhammad Umer, Chief Minister, and Government of Sind.”
Now, I would like to make a few observations before I permit the honorable the mover to proceed with this speech on this motion. I am sure honorable members of this House will agree with me that motions of this kind give rise to an extraordinary position in a Parliamentary House where feelings and emotions are likely to play a greater part than the discussion. Therefore I would earnestly appeal to them that while making their speeches-keeping of course the object in view-they must keep the debate on a very high level, consistent with the decorum and dignity of a Parliamentary House which they are occupying, and the sentiments and feelings, whatever they may be, should not carry them away to extremes. I think everybody will agree with me that the success of such motions does not depend upon any rhetorical ability, but depends on quite other circumstances which might have even transpired before we have met within four walls of this House, so that it does not depend upon the volume or the quantity but upon the quality of the speeches that are made to convince the other side. Therefore, I would earnestly request honorable members kindly be very discreet in their expressions and avoid being personal or even defamatory.
Now, so far as the time limit of speeches is concerned, I would like to know how many honorable members desire to speak on this motion, so that I might allot the time to each member and I would request them to kindly rise in their seats. First I would like to know how many from the side of the honorable the mover of the resolution likes to speak.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, before you ask the members to stand up and fix the time-limit, I want to know whether you are fixing a time-limit and whether you are fixing one day for this motion.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Yes
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I submit…….
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: I find some visitors going out. If anybody wants to go out, he must clear out at once. I will give those 2 minutes to vacate if they want. I don’t want any disturbance.
(Translated the above in the Sindhi)
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I want to submit that on a motion of this nature which is practically an impeachment of the ministry, no time-limit has been fixed in any Parliamentary House. I will give several examples of the House of Commons.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Do please quote from the House of Commons.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I have not come prepared with examples from the House of Commons debate, but I will quote from other Assemblies.
Sir, a confidence motion was moved in Bengal Assembly on 10th August 1938, and there the debate went on 3 days without any time-limit being imposed on the speeches.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: From 7th to 10th. I am quoting what is printed in the debates of 10th August. There THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER has remarked:-
“I would just advise that after three long days, if members are still inclined to protract the proceedings should come to an end to-day, then I would appeal to both sides of the House to allow the speech to be finished. This is the last speech, after this I will ask the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Sarat Chandra Bose, to speak and then the Honorable the Chief Minister and the Honorable Mr. Suhrawardy will reply to the debate. I hope the effect of this will not be lost.”
It is very clear that there is no precedent where speeches were limited. Even in an ordinary Court of justice, when Advocates have to appear before one single individual, they are allowed sufficient time to prove their case. Here we are on the floor of this House, advocating for the whole of the Province, and if any limitation is placed on our speeches, it will be great injustice to the Province itself. We will never be able to prove any point properly here. Therefore, I would submit that before you give any ruling, you should kindly consider that there is no precedent anywhere in the Legislatures.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Will the honorable member pass on that book to me for a few minutes?
(After looking through the book) The debate has been carried on for 3 days- 8th, 9th and 10th- in Calcutta.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: But no limitation was placed. If the members did not talk, that is a different thing.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Sir, I want to point out another thing before the honorable members are allowed to speak. Sir, I would refer you to the ruling given by your predecessor on this point when there was a motion of adjournment on the question of bifurcation of the two posts in Dado District Local Boards, i.e., Mr. Tahilramani’s affair. The honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain, who was then the Chief Minister, took objection to the speech of honorable member Mr. G.M. Sayed himself, saying that he was making vague allegations and was defaming the officers. Then the ruling of your predecessor was under the heading: “Speaker’s ruling on defaming anybody on the floor of the Assembly.”
“THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : THE HONORABLE the Chief Minister must remember that absolute power is given to honorable members within this House to say what they like, even to defame anyone if they wish, No. action can be taken for defaming anyone on the floor of the House. But if an honorable member liable for defamation. It is entirely for him to say what he wants to say.”
But if an honorable member defames anybody outside, he is liable for prosecution. Now statements made in this House cannot make an honorable member liable for defamation. It is for him to say what he wants to say. That is the ruling at page 36 of the proceedings of 16th August 1937.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: By whom?
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: By the honorable the late Diwan Bhojsingh.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Now the honorable the Leader of the House.
The honorable Leader of the House is on his legs. Does the honorable member (referring to Dr. Popatlal who shot up) want any information?
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOTPATKAR: Sir, on motion like this, there should not be fixed any time-limit. Sir I am quoting the ruling given by Sir Ibrahim Rahimtoola.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Does it require further explanation from the honorable member?
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOTPATKAR: If the Honorable the Leader of the House’s is not the last word on the subject, I will resume my seat.
I was drawing your attention to the ruling given by Sir Ibrahim Rahimtoola. It is at page 159. “On a vote of censure closure cannot be accepted.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Unfortunately my honorable friend has not been able to realize what a closure is and what time-limit is.
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOTPATKAR: You must hear me and I shall explain, Sir. My grievance is that you do not allow me to complete my sentence.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Will the honorable member please sit down? He is wrong in his argument ab initio for he is quoting a ruling which refers to closure. When anybody wants to stop a debate, then this ruling applies. This ruling is irrelevant here, if he wants to apply it to any speech. This is not the point at issue.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: I agree with my honorable friend Mr. Gazdar. You will pardon me, Sir, you have no right to curtail our speeches provided they are relevant, and you cannot say. . . . . .
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : That I cannot put a time-limit, you mean?
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH : You have no authority under the Act to do so if our speeches are relevant and we are within our rights as long as we make out a case. We are not going to be treated like school boys, that you may say “Speak for 5 minutes, or 10 minutes”. Under the Act , we have the right of speech. Provided we are not irrelevant , nobody can curtail our speeches. (Hear, hear.)
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : The honorable member has exceeded the privileges of an ordinary member, and I am sure he was inclined to be disrespectful to the Chair. I never said that he was a school boy. I have always stood for the greatest respect of the honorable members and I am here to maintain the dignity of the House and the good traditions of this House. The honorable member must realize his own limitations. I shall quote him my powers. Nothing has been provided by these rules with regard to the procedure for these motions. I have not given my ruling yet for the honorable members to pass these remarks. I have got every power within me, and the Speaker is the sole authority to define any procedure that has to be adopted in any matter where no specific provision has been provided. I find nothing has been stated in the standing orders. I am not going to apply the procedure applicable to motions I am fully empowered to lay down a time-limit. Standing Order XXI, page 39 says: The Speaker shall have power to conduct the business of the Assembly in all matters not provided under the Act, rules or Standing orders. The honorable member has not pointed out any rule or Standing Order or . . . . . .
1. (There was commotion in the House.) Order, Order, the Chair is on its legs.
. . . . . . . . any procedure in the House of Commons in accordance with which he can say that the Chair has no power to lay down a time-limit.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : Not in a no-confidence motion.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: But I have not given my ruling. You are going to judge before I have finished. I wish the Honorable House to convince me of the time-limit to be put. I have not given my ruling yet, and why should I be prejudged?
Now, the Honorable the Leader of the House.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, in fact when my honorable friend Mr.Gazdar quoted the Bengal ruling I did not really know what the rules were. But in the normal course of circumstances rule 5 at page 36 would apply. “Except with the permission of the Speaker no speech on a resolution shall exceed 15 minutes in duration.” Nothing has been laid down about the resolution before the House. Whether a resolution pertains to a No-Confidence motion or whether it is another resolution, the resolution must be treated as such, But, Sir, I do not wish to be obstructive in any way. The Chair has full power to exceed the limit of 15 minutes, whereas ordinarily the time-limit of 15 minutes will apply.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: It is not a motion. I will go further for the benefit of the honorable members and refer to them Standing Order V which lays down the general procedure applicable to motions. At the bottom of page 25 is quoted thus: “This Speaker may, if he thinks fit, prescribe a time-limit for speeches.” This is the general procedure, so that the Chair has complete power to lay down the time-limit-of course reasonable, and therefore I am just consulting the opinion of the honorable members as to what time will be required, so that I will be in a position to regulate the debate and give time and opportunity to every honorable member who wishes to speak. I realize the importance of the motion, and I am not going to be a hindrance, but shall allow good opportunity to every honorable member. Otherwise everybody will get up at the far end and will repeat the same arguments. I am in your hands absolutely.
MIR BANDEHALI KHAN TALPUR: Sir, this motion is very important and the Chair will give as much latitude as possible to all honorable members.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Of course legal latitude. I do not agree with the Honorable Leader of the House. He wants me to adopt the procedure laid down for resolutions. The resolution is a sort of recommendation to Government. This is a sort of extraordinary motions, for which no specific procedure has been laid down by rules. I have search from the beginning to the end of the rules. I thought first the procedure laid down for motions might be applicable, but this is not definite and therefore, I have to use my discretion. The Honorable Member must look to the volume of the speeches that will be made and the number of members desirous of participating in this debate. Precisely with that object I request the honorable members from different groups to rise in their seats so that I can estimate in how much time, in how many days or hours, the debate is likely to be finished.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : During the debate certain things might crop up, and certain members who have made up their minds not to speak, might change their minds and might desire to speak You might bear that in mind when deciding how many members are likely to speak.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Will the honorable members rise in their seats; I mean those who desire to speak from the Muslim League group? (5 members stood up) All right 5 now from the congress group.
Mr. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: Nobody is desirous of speaking from these benches.
Mr. A. BECHAR: There are others desirous of speaking.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Yes, Mr. Naraindas and Mr. Jamshed desire to speak. Yes, Sir Ghulam Hussain and the Deputy Speaker also.
Now from the Hindu Independent party.
Mr. DIALMAL DOULATRAM: We do not propose to say anything unless it becomes necessary to do so.
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRIANI : I will speak.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The other honorable member who wish to speak form the Government benches are the Honorable Revenue Minister, Mr. Fraser, Mr. Pirzada, Khan Bahadur Ghulam Nabi Shah, K. S. Burdi and Mr. M. U Soomro.
Now, the honorable the mover of the motion.
Mr. G. M. SAYED : (In Sindhi) Sir, in rising to move this motion of no-confidence against the Honorable move this motion of no-confidence against the Honorable the Chief Minister I would like, at very outset, to explain a few points by way of preliminary observations. I think I do owe an explanation to this Honorable House and to all my colleagues on these benches, including of course my leader, as to why I should have been entrusted with the duty to move this motion. Sir, those who know the history of how this Cabinet came into this existence will not, I believe, feel it difficult to understand the implication of it. As the House is aware, I was to a very large extent held responsible for the overthrow of the previous Ministry and for the coming into existence of the present one. I had then given certain undertakings and assurances on behalf of the Honorable the Premier and his followers as to the course of conduct that they would follow as Ministers of this realm. And now that they failed to satisfy my expectations as well as those of the country and the community, it becomes my unthinkable duty to raise my voice against the continuance of the existing arrangement to whose creation I was unfortunately a party. Let me make it very clear, Sir, that I owe no enmity to the Honorable the Premier, personally. He has all along been my friend in his individual capacity, and I have always appreciated some of the qualities with which he is endowed. But he will not naturally expect me to hoodwink the people for his sake, just at a time when he has set the whole country aflame by his obstinacy, his defiant attitude, and his irresponsible conduct. The duty no doubt is a painful one, but all the same I am satisfied that my feelings for a particular individual have not deterred me from echoing the feelings of the people whose representative I happen to be in his Honorable House.
I may also be asked as to why of all the three Ministers I have chosen the Honorable the Premier for this motion of no-confidence. The Honorable the Chief Minister , be it said to his credit, is the moving spirit of the entire Cabinet and as such, the largest amount of responsibility about the actions of the Cabinet naturally falls upon his shoulders. The other two Ministers owe mere loyalty to him as their Chief, and I am prepared to concede that they owe greater loyalty to him as their Chief than even to their own conscience or to their own county. It should therefore not be a matter of any wonder if I have selected the Honorable the Chief Minister for his motion of mine.
In order to see the actions of the Honorable the Chief Minister which have merited this motion, in their proper setting, it is essential to go into very history of his elevation to the Premiership. The fateful day of 17th March 1938 must not have been effaced form the memories of the honorable members on either side. What were the grounds to justify the fall of the previous Ministry and the coming into being of present one? The six main charges against the previous Cabinet were-
(a) That is was extravagant and had no idea of lightening the burden under which the tax-prayer in Sind was groaning.
(b) That it had brought about no change in the outlook of the officials whose arbitrary proceedings and tyrannical and corrupt ways in the moffusil had made the lot of the people there really difficult.
(c) That its affairs were moving at a very slow pace.
(d) That it had failed to render any relief to the masses, whether by way of legislation or through executive measures.
(e) That it had been autocratic in its outlook all through its career and did not bend sufficiently before the public opinion.
At the time the present Cabinet came into existence, lots of hopes were aroused not only in those who helped it to come into existence but in the hearts of even those that were outside the Legislature. The Honorable the Chief Minister in his statement of policy before this House told us on the 30th of March 1938 that “the electorate may judge him by his actions after six months.” Be it said to his credit or discredit that at the end of those six months of trial he did not give us any opportunity to judge him here, for he prevented the very calling of any session of the Legislature. But, after all, we have met here to-day to judge him by his actions through it is at the end of nearly say, and the whole country is behind me when I say, that he has completely frustrated. My voice is the voice of the disillusioned millions outside the portals of this Honorable House, as well as of many members of this House whom various extraneous considerations have not prevented from looking at the things from a right angle of vision, when I say that he present Chief Minister has betrayed not only his friends, not only members of his party, but his whole community as well as the country in general. I will presently prove this to you. Let me at this stage admit that the previous Cabinet, howsoever unsatisfactory, was much better and more democratic in its outlook than the present one.
Let us see the extravagance of the previous Cabinet and the parsimony of our friend the Honorable the present Premier.
It is an open scandal that the recommendations of the Reorganization Committee appointed by the previous Cabinet have not been enforced as yet to the satisfaction of the country and of this Honorable House. The Honorable Chief Minister knew full well that the expenditure on administration per head in this province was the highest as compared with that in the other Provinces of India. The Re-organization Committee has recommended the pruning of various extravagant items and the total savings which would thus occur comes to about 30 lacs of rupees. But the honorable the Chief Minister who was always so solicitous of the relief of the masses before his becoming a Premier, as was revealed by his speeches here during that period, has shelved the whole report, if not altogether ignored those possibilities of lightening the burden of the tax-payer. The Honorable the Public Works Department Minster has to some extent no doubt shown small mercies to the people by restricting the areas of the garden which were raised in the Inspection Bungalows for the benefit of the touring Public Works Department officials. But the honorable the Chief Minister has, instead even seeking the sanction of this Honorable House. I may give few such instances which have come to my notice. He has created these new appointments-
1) An I.C.S Deputy Secretary in the Revenue Department.
2) A Mukhtiar as P. A to the Revenue Minister.
3) A Deputy Secretary for the Finance Department.
4) An I.C.S Secretary for special duty.
5) A personal Assistant for the I.G.P.
It is believed that he is shortly going to add yet another feather to his cap by appointing an officer of Collector’s grade on special duty to hold an inquiry into the relationship between Jagirdars and Haris. But as the Honorable the Chief Minister wanted to give a little longer lease of life to the present Collector of Sukkur, - who is perhaps more amenable to his influences- being a provincial service officer, the officer of Collector’s grade who had to succeed him is being kept out of his way on this pretext.
The cost that the country has been compelled to bear for maintaining these officials must necessarily be prohibitive and that goes directly against the commitments of the Chief Minister at the time he became Premier. It may be said that the expenditure on those officials must not be beyond some thousands, but I will remind the Honorable the Premier of his speech of 28th April 1937, on the floor of this Honorable House wherein he has said, “The 8, 9 or 10 thousand rupees or whatever it may be, is indeed of very great consequence to us.” That is what he has said when Sir Ghulam Hussain was the Premier and now that he becomes one; those have lost all their previous value to him. Indeed, he himself may be richer to-day, but the country is poorer by his becoming Chief Minister.
Not only has the Chief Minister been the cause of this extravagance, but he has allowed his colleagues, chiefly the Revenue Minister, to undertake long and unnecessary touring by motorcar which has cost the country at the rate of six annals per mile. Thousands of rupees have been charged by his colleagues in addition to their salaries, and yet the Honorable the Chief Minister has not been able to prevent them from so doing. What was the use of their touring, I ask? .People were unnecessarily impelled to submit lacs of petitions to them, on whose preparation alone all the applicants combined may have spent over a lakh of rupees, and all that money has been able to do anything for those unfortunate applicants, thanks to the peculiar attitude of the Honorable the Chief Minister. Again, God alone knows how many thousands of rupees it must have cost the hosts of the Ministers to entertain the latter during the course of their touring. I am told that in Jacobabad the zamindars vied with each other in entertaining them and the caters went from Karachi.
The treatment which the Honorable the Chief Minister has accorded to the agriculturist tax-payer is the most outstanding scandalous feature of his regime. The story of assessment proposals is, as this Honorable House knows, very poignant one. In order to gauge the magnitude of the injustice done to the people I would draw the attention of this House to Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh’s own statement in the old Bombay Legislative Council on 27th March 1935 wherein he has stated thus, pointed out, in the event of separation of Sind, the agriculturist of Sind will not be able to bear the burden of the present assessment. The Government of India should therefore be informed of this hardship, so that they may either increase the subsidy for Sind or take such other steps as they may deem necessary. I should particularly like to urge on the honorable members representing the Presidency that on that consideration alone they should support us.”
Then again speaking on the 9th August 1937 in this Honorable House on the reports of the settlement officers, he has observed thus: “By adding a little bit here and subtracting a little bit there, the conclusions which the settlement officers have arrived at cannot but be wrong and very dangerous.” Compare both these statements of his with the present ones that he himself has made to the agriculturists during his own regime.
Now, if , Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister believed in what he then said, was it proper on his part to have imposed the increased rates of assessment on any pretext or under any cloak? But, Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister seems to have lost all his previous feelings for the overtaxed agriculturists of this province after he has come to wear the mantle of the Chief Minister of this Province. He has iniquitously enhanced the burden of the agriculturists instead of reducing it, as was expected of him. Not only that, but he has done it in defiance of the party to whom he owes his very rise to the present status. I will remind this Honorable House of the resolution of the Sind United Party, which was passed in the presence of and with the concurrence of the Honorable the Chief Minister on 13th of July, 1938.
“In view of the fact that the principle of sliding scale of land revenue taxation is new to this province, requiring examination of the details, the party, while accepting that there is need for revision of settlement, resolve that the present rates of taxation should continue for 12 min, during which period following details should be attended to by the Government:-
1 Survey of classification of soils to enable to discriminate taxation according to yield, suitability and other conditions of soil.
2 Examination of various data to fix details of the sliding scale.
3 Effecting of various proposals of retrenchment and exploring possibilities of other sources of revenue.
The Party, while appreciating the anxiety of Government to arrive at an early decision, feel that in view of seriousness of the problem and especially when there is no prospect of any immediate additional revenue from this source due to present low market prices, Government should not find it difficult to accept and act up to the above decision of the party.”
Now Sir, it is very significant to note that the Honorable the Chief Minister was present in that meeting and he had agreed to carry out the resolution, the very drafting was done in consultation and agreement with him. But, Sir, he kept us in hopes only right up to the 15th of July, when he came to know through other sources that he had actually passed orders and that they had gone to the Government Press for printing. We then called upon him to explain, whereupon he resigned from the membership of the United Party. After two days again he called a meeting of a few members at his Bungalow and it was given the name of the United Party meeting. On the third day he again backed out from his resignation and made his colleague the Revenue Minister state on his behalf that he had never resigned. The world does not know as to what party the Honorable the Chief Minister belongs. All the other parties in the legislature have condemned the assessment orders. Twice there have been anti-ministry days observed by the whole of the Province demanding the resignation of the Chief Minister. The Congress party had passed a resolution on the 16th of July which runs thus:
“The Congress stands for principles of responsible Government. Where a new system of taxation affecting every Khatedar in Sind and one-fourth of its population was going to be introduced, it was impossible for the Congress in Sind to sit quiet and allow a responsible ministry to pass its orders without giving proper opportunity to the people’s representatives and the Assembly parties to understand the proposals and give their views. That would have been to betray the interest of the people and stultify itself.
But it appeared that the Ministry was determined to pass orders and introduce the new system. Even the ministerial parties themselves were not called to meet and the tentative proposals of the Ministerial crisis. The elected representatives rushed to Karachi learning of the imminence of the passing of orders by Government on the new system.
Their appeals that the Government should not pass orders but postpone them for the 12months also failed. It is the attitude of the Ministers, wholly in violation of the principle of the self Government, which has precipitated the situation. In the circumstances, the Congress party is constrained to resume its complete freedom of action in the matter of its attitude towards the ministry.”
Even the verdict of the Congress High Command has been that the attitude and action of the Ministry in this respect has been highly objectionable. I am referring to Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel and Moulana Abul Kalam’s joint statement of September 1938.
The attitude of the Hindu Independent party has also been almost the same and I am confident that no Hindu member, representing at least the forty per cent. Hindu agriculturists, will have the courage to come forward and say that the Chief Minister has not done injustice to the agriculturists.
The point I would like to make out here is that the Honorable the Chief Minister has taxed the people iniquitously, and secondly that the method that he has adopted has been most anti-democratic. If the Honorable the Chief Minister with these antecedence of his is allowed to remain in office I can only say that God help the agriculturists, the parliamentary parties, the public opinion and the canons of constitutional propriety and public morality.
As everyone knows, the assessment orders possess three features:-
1 Sliding scale,
3 Assessment on the miscellaneous crop.
All the three features are evils of a very high order and they have been sufficiently criticized and condemned in the past. The sliding scale is an innovation and has been introduced without adequate preliminaries having been gone through It is not a sliding scale but a soaring scale, which can mount up if the prices of cotton rise, but it cannot climb down their existing level if the rates go down. The figures of yield are inaccurate and the land classification has been entirely lost sight of.
The re-grouping is equally obnoxious and so are the new rates of assessment on miscellaneous crop. They had been recommended by the Settlement Officer and rejected by this Honorable House in August 1937. Even the Honorable the Chief Minister himself had condemned them in his speech on the 9th August 1937, which I have quoted above. He said “by adding a little bit here and subtracting a little bit there the conclusions which the Settlement Officers have arrived at cannot but be wrong and very dangerous,” and yet it is one the basis of those very wrong and dangerous conclusions that he has chosen to tax the people in such wild manner.
I want the honorable members to realize that to vote for the Chief Minister on this motion would mean voting in favor of the assessment orders. The country may not be able to take such members shall have to render an account for all that they do now in respect of this situation.
The official outlook has not changed in the slightest degree and for that a separate reference shall have to be made.
The third point against the Honorable Chief Minister is that he has not taken a progressive view of things and that the country continues to be in the same unhappy plight in which it was in the pre-autonomy days. It requires no further elucidation sharing to this point home to the honorable members, for every one of them knows what kind of atmosphere prevails in the country. Does the honorable Chief Minister remember contents of his own letters of resignation to Sir Ghulam Hussain in March 1938?
The fourth thing is that they are moving at a very slow space. There can be no two opinion about it no session were held for till 9 months and thousand of questions, 100 of resolutions and over 100 Bills are pending on the agenda. Even the ordinary matter are replied to after months. Letter addressed on 21st December 1937 has been replied to on 4th January 1939. The Land alienation Bills and the Debt Conciliation Bills are not allowed to be thorough. After 9 months, the Honorable Chief Minister has circulated a few draft bills which are wholly useless. It is the case of the Mountain in labor which brings fourth only a little house. I will at this stage remind the Honorable Chief Minister the wording his pledge to the United Party. Let him know that was the program which he had promised to follow. That promised he has given on the floor of this House on 30th March 1938 and is printed on page 68 of the Debates for 30th March 1938. In the same page he has said that he should be judged at the end six months. These promises he had made after he became the Chief Minister. Now what is the United Parties program which the Honorable the Chief Minister had thus undertaken to execute?
a) To support through the Party’s representatives in the Federal Legislature any scheme of All-India utility and concern especially with regard to the attainment of Dominion Status, economizing at the centre, problems affecting the Indians overseas, modification of laws and bringing them in conformity with the public option in collaboration with an All India Organization as the Party from time to time may decide.
b) To strive for the achievement of the fullest measure of Provincial Autonomy.
c) To achieve communal harmony on an economic basis. ( The lines of economy for achieving communal harmony are, Sir, patently absent from the program of the Honorable the Leader of the House.)
d) To enable all sections of the population to enjoy all facilities and advantages on a equitable basis with regard to matters such as services, education, commerce, franchise, etc.
e) To promote the interest of agriculturists and laborers.
f) To strive for village developments, promoting cottage industries and providing villagers with all amenities of modern life as far as may be possible to do from time to time.
g) To save the small land-holders from the evil of usury and usurpation of land by non-agriculturists and big landlords.
h) To ensure recognition of legitimate privileges and rights of all Haris and Landlords without causing any unjustified injury to any other class of people.
i) To provide for relief of agricultural indebtedness.
j) To study and promote commercial and industrial interests to the Province.
k) To improve Public Health.
l) To overhaul the educational systems in all its branches so as to bring about literacy among the workers and toilers and to inculcate love of manual labor and vocations amongst the educated people.
m) To provide for gradual introduction of compulsory education.
n) To improve methods of marketing, including the reforms of objectionable market usages and practices.
o) To secure the purity of administration with special emphasis on eradication of the evils of Rasai, Lapo, Chher and bribery.
p) To distribute fairly and equitably the burden of taxation.
q) To eliminate all excess in the cost of administration with a view to give relief in taxation.
r) To promote religious and cultural integrity of each community as the best basis of lasting national unity.
s) In case of conflict between the communities, to settle disputes by conciliation and/ or arbitration.
Now, Sir the promised period of six months is over, and on the contrary it is the tenth month going, and we are now entitled to hear as to what the Honorable the Chief Minister has done to implement that promise of his. In order to show more clearly to this Honorable House the progressive bent of mind of the Honorable the Chief Minister, I would like to read out to this Honorable House the contents of a recent letter of the Government, bearing No. O.- 542-H/37, dated 4th January 1939. It is a reply to my letter of 8th December 1938, in which I had made a grievance of three things: firstly, that the Law about the criminal tribes was most oppressive; secondly, that the Badmashi section was being abused; thirdly, that the District Superintendent of Police of Thar Parkar possessed lands in that very district and that therefore it was undesirable to keep him in that very district.
Now I will read out to you the Government reply. It runs thus:-
“It is possible that attending rolls calls causes inconvenience to registered criminal tribesmen but, considering their criminal bent of mind, Government have no alternative but to impose certain restrictions upon them. Government will see, however, that inconvenience caused to them is the minimum and that their time is not wasted in attending rolls calls.
Government are not aware that rolls calls result in free labor and bribery, and if any specific instances of these are mentioned, they will not fail to bring the culprits to book. But they do not consider that they would be justified in setting up a special enquiry without being in possession of concrete proof of the existence of the circumstances stated by you.
2. As regards your second point, I am to say that proceedings under section 110 of the criminal Procedure Code are judicial Proceedings, the outcome of which cannot be manipulated by the Police. However, if it can be proved that any subordinate of the Police Department receives money in the manner stated by you, he will be dealt with in an exemplary manner.
3. As regards your third point, I am to say that Government regrets they cannot move in the matter as suggested by you unless some specific proof of the existence of the conditions mentioned by you is forthcoming.”
Now, Sir, compare the Government reply with the following message in the Honorable the Chief Minister’s own statement of policy which he made on the floor of this House on the 29th of March 1938 and which appears on page 35 of Debate for 29th of March. This is what he has said:-
“Owing to the absence of village police system in Sind, considerable inconvenience is being caused to persons who are called upon by the police to give roll call at a police station. Government considers it desirable to institute immediately an enquiry into the procedure now followed throughout Sind, so as to prevent harassment or unnecessary hardship to those persons.”
The comparison of the two passages will show what a great volume of water has flowed down the bridge between the two periods.
With regard to the question of giving relief to the masses, I don’t think even the Honorable the Chief Minister can say that he has done anything in that direction.
With regard to his autocratic ways, I think, the less said the better. With these remarks I resume my seat.
(The Honorable the Deputy Speaker occupied the Chair)
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Sir, I want to speak, may I proceed?
The Honorable The Deputy Speaker: I thought honorable member Mr. Gazdar wanted to speak first.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : But I am on my legs Sir.
The Honorable The Deputy Speaker: Well, proceed.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Sir, I rise to support the motion moved by my honorable friend Mr. G . M. Sayed to-day. First of all, I wish to apologize if I am not able to pitch my voice high enough to make myself audible throughout the Hall, because I am suffering from temporary disabilities through an unkind nature I am suffering at the moment from sore throat, and therefore unfortunately my voice is not very clear. However, I shall make my best efforts to explain the position as clearly as possible.
Sir, first of all, I wish to explain briefly the constitutional position of this motion. It is not a matter of any uncommon occurrence that in any Parliamentary House a Government is taken to task for doing anything which is unconstitutional and which is wrong and which is not considered as acceptable to the people and to the country. At the present Ministry has been in the office. I refer particularly to the period beginning from the middle of July right up to to-day, when there has been considerable criticism in the press against the Ministry; there have been public meetings of protest and there have been various other objections raised as to the manner in which the present Ministry has conducted the affairs of this Province. The First and the foremost thing which is to-day absorbing our attention is the question of land revenue policy of the present Government. This question, Sir, should not be very lightly treated, as very of I have been finding criticism that it is unfair on the part of agriculturists to protest if any reasonable taxation is proposed. It is only natural, when their pockets are touched, that they will raise objection and say that they are too poor to bear this burden. That is a very objection from the landed class towards any taxation. But, Sir, it is the primarily duty this Honorable House to see whether those objections as the fresh taxation are reasonable or they are un-reasonable.
Now, Sir, before I enter into the question of the Land Revenue proposals, before I discuss the point whether they are right or wrong and before I explain how I have come to the conclusion that these proposals are unfair and untenable, I must first of all explain the constitutional position that has been adopted by the present Honorable Ministers. Most of the people have short memories and particularly it happens to be so in politics. They easily forget what the past history was and how these honorable gentlemen have come to occupy these benches and what promises they gave to the country and how far they have fulfilled those promises. I am very glad that a motion has been moved by my honorable friend Mr. Sayed, who, on his own admission, has said that he was the chief instrument in bringing the present ministry power. That statement is absolutely correct and cannot be denied. The self-same gentleman has come forward to-day to move this motion of no confidence and I fully agree with him that he was the only proper person who should have brought this motion in this Honorable House. He has in a cool and logical manner, without any word implying malice or ill-will, given his arguments in support of his motion and I give him credit for having explained his case so ably and well.
Sir, these honorable gentlemen, after taking over the reins of their office, made statements in this Honorable House and outside in the public, that they will do this and do that for the country, and that we must judge them not by their words but by their deeds. These are the words the Honorable the Chief Minister Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh uttered in his very first statement which he made in this House on the memorable occasion of the 30th March last. “You should judge us by our deeds and not by our words.” I am very glad that I have been afforded an opportunity on this occasion to do so.
Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh happened to be the Leader of the Opposition in August 1937 when the late Ministry of the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain brought forward the proposals of the Land Revenue Settlement to be discussed in this Honorable House and there was a full dress debate for two dats over that motion. The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH was one of those members who most vehemently condemned the proposals. I need not waste the time of this Honorable House by repeating quotations as some of them have already have been paraded forth. But I shall content myself with saying that after having made that speech and after again taking over the responsible position of the Chief Minister of the Province, he has sponsored those very proposals. I go further and say that he is the author of these proposals and I make this position very clear. You will pardon me, Sir, that I do not agree with you that this is a special responsibility of His Excellency the Governor, because I maintain that these proposals have emanated from the Ministry and this advice was tendered by the Ministry itself to His Excellency the Governor and therefore the responsibility primarily falls on the shoulders of the Ministry.
You know, Sir, and I make an appeal to my honorable friends of the European Group sitting her in this House who belong to a free nation and come from a free country which has had Parliamentary Institutions for hundreds of years.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: For 7 centuries.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Yes, from time immemorial.
They know very well what the principles of democracy are and what the duties of a democratic Government are. They know perfectly well that when there is an important question agitating the country, it is the primary duty of the Prime Minister of England to see that that question is discussed on the floor of the Parliament. In this way the country’s verdict is obtained by the resignation of the Ministry and the ordering of a general election so that the country may in an unequivocal voice express its real opinion on a particular issue of an important nature. Now, let us see what this Honorable friend Mr. Gazdar, who has done by. In July last my honorable friend a Mr. Gazdar, who happened to be the Secretary of the United Party, and these Honorable Ministers- at least two of them belonged to the United Party- called a meeting of the Party on 12th July. I remember the date because I then happened to be in Karachi. I am telling you this because I wish to make a grievance of the fact that they never cared to ask the Leader of the Opposition, who, at that time, was the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain, as to what they were going to do with an important question of this nature. They secretly and surreptitiously went on preparing certain proposals and sprang a surprise on their own party when they told them that these proposals were coming up and were going to be adopted. The proposals were discussed for 2 or 3 days, and what was the result? My honorable friend.
Mr. G. M. SAYED has very clearly pointed out to ypou that after a full discussion in the United Party; a resolution, in very clear words was passed that we are not agreeable to these proposals and wanted that for 12 months they should be postponed and the question of classification of soil, etc, should be fully gone into. On the one side these proposals were being discussed in the house of the honorable member Mr. G. M . Sayed, and on the other they were being printed in the Government Press as final orders of the Government of the Province . This is very honorable way in which these honorable gentlemen have treated their own party. You will see, Sir, that on the 12th of July these proposals were being discussed by the Ministers with their parties an on the 15th the people received final orders. They were printed and published as proposals which had been finally adopted by the Government of the Province.
Now, Sir, what was the attitude adopted by the Congress towards these proposals? It is not unknown to the public of the Province and the honorable members of this House. In their statement they in very clear terms condemned the proposals and they condemned them in their resolution passed on 16th July 1938. May I ask, Sir, in those circumstances what should have been the constitutional position of the Honorable Ministers after that? Their party gave them a clear mandate that these proposals must not be the given effect to for 12 months. The Congress on whose support they partly came into office,- and that fact cannot be denied because they had no majority and it was on the sufferance of the Congress that they came into power,- also gave them a clear mandate that these proposals were to be postponed. The party of the Honorable Mr.Nihchaldas, known as the Hindu Independent Party, also, I understand unanimously decided that these proposals must not be given effect to. However, I am subject to correction so far as that statement goes. But, at any rate, that was the position as it stood at that time. Did they resign their seats in deference to the demand put forth by their parties? No. What would any Government have done in those circumstances in any free country? Under similar circumstances the Prime Minister of England would have resigned if the verdict of the Party had gone against him.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: For the matter of that, would any constitutional Government in any province in India have done that?
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Sir, we have been given reforms on the broad lines of the constitutional Government of England. However inadequate these reforms may be, is another question, but in a miniature form the reforms and powers given to us are on the lines of the constitutional Government in England. These people were elected, and they were called upon to form the Ministry for the simple reason that they belonged to a particular party. The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH was called upon to form the Cabinet not because he was a Khan Bahadur of Shikarpur, but the because he was the Leader of the United Party of this Honorable House. But when he has crossed the river he has burnt the boats. He has kicked at the United Party as if he owed no responsibility to it. He has instead begun corrupting its members in order to spread chaos in the rank and file of that party.
I might inform the Honorable House that he and his colleagues tendered their resignation from their party instead of tendering their resignation from the Cabinet. It should have been a matter of clear indifference to them whether any party in the House was Government in the Province. Their constitutional position was to tell the United Party, “ Our friend here is our resignation if you don’t support our proposals. We have consciously done what is right, but because our party forms a Ministry, we will oppose them. We will sit on the Opposition Benches and see that they are driven out of office, if they come and occupy office under these conditions.” They failed to do that, and, therefore, I say that they have kicked at the principles of democracy. They have set up a very bad example for this unfortunate young Province of Bombay with high hopes attached to it. I was one of those who took a prominent part in the question of the separation of Sind. It pains me to find that after separation we are getting at the helm of affairs gentlemen who do not know how to work them. Sir, I wish The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH were recognized the dictator of Europe to-day, he will find that he has arrogated to himself practically all the powers of a dictator, forgetting, of course, the responsibilities of a dictator. Even the dictator is responsible to the country. He must have read very often in the papers that whenever Signor Mussolini or Herr Hitler wants to bring in some proposals, they come before the country. They address lakhs and lakhs of people and tell them “This is our desire” and they always carry the masses with themselves. Here in our province our dictators do not carry even the masses with themselves. I am sorry to say the Honorable the Chief Minister has never come forward to seek the verdict of this House or of the country. But his two colleagues only have gone on his behalf making speeches at random. At most of the places they dared not speak anything of the land revenue proposals. At certain places they might have had the courage to speak something about the proposals, but my information is that at those places also they were hooted in spite of the fact that officials were told to collect masses. Meetings were organized by the Collectors of the Districts, Executive Engineers and other Government Officials. All these officers were responsible for collecting people to receive the Ministers. But even that one sided audience, which was collected by the officials, did not support them on the land revenue proposals.
Now, Sir, I am very sorry that people talk so much about corruption- I mean of corruption among officials. I say that even this Ministry is corrupt. It has gone even further than that. It is both corrupt, because it has corrupted members, and anti-democratic in its outlook, because it has disregarded public opinion and ignored the honest views of the honorable members of this House. They have corrupted members by offering them all sorts of temptations to resign from their parties and support the Honorable Chief Minister’s proposals about assessment which have been thrust upon the country. It should not be the concern of the Honorable the Chief Ministers, to seduce members, persuade them by various offers individually, and tell them “We will do this thing for you, we will do that thing for you”, and then to barter for themselves.
The Ministers have resigned from the United Party in July 1938. Eight months have passed since their resignation went fourth to the United Party. After that, the right course for them to adopt was to form another party. But I have never heard any party having been formed by the Honorable the Chief Minister. What I some time back heard was that one of the Ministers went round on his tour advertising that possibly he will start a National Party. But upto this day I have never known what the rules and principles of that National Party are and under what conditions people will join that National Party. Some people believed that the tom-tomming of the advantages of the creation of a National Party was designed to pull the leg of the Congress and secure its assistance. But that was not possible. For the Congressmen the proper place is Opposition. They might not do that temporarily, for certain circumstances to which I am coming later on, but the constitutional position for the congress to sit in the Opposition. By doing that they are not committing any crime, but they are doing their duty towards the constituencies that have returned them to this Honorable House. I am also equally responsible to my constituency when I give expression to the views and speak as an advocate of the constituency that has returned me to his House.
Sir, it cannot be denied that I am one of the Senior members of this House and am a senior legislator. I have 12 years remained in the Bombay Legislative Council during the Dyarchy period. Even in those days we did not see things being done as they are being done to-day under the present Ministry. Sir, you were also, for some time, our colleague in the Bombay Legislative Council. You will also bear me out that we never saw things like these done in Bombay. Now what has happened here? I am coming to that later on when I will show you how a responsible Government is being conducted in this Province. It is matter of shame for us really to give expression to these views. It is really unfortunate. Under the circumstances we are working, I am afraid the things will go from bad to worse unless all the honorable members of this House realize that very great responsibility lies on their shoulders to see that Ministry goes aright and that Government is conducted on right lines to set an example for our successors who will follow us, so that they will never go astray. But what do we find here? Even those members who sit in Opposition, are backing up such a ministry. It is most regrettable that extraneous circumstances should be brought in to justify their supporting the ministry.
I quoted just now that I didn’t find a parallel of this kind even in diarchy period under the Montagu-Chelmsford Reforms from the year 1923 to 1935 when I was associated with the Bombay Presidency as a member of the Bombay Legislative Council. Sir, if you remember, whenever Government wanted to create any appointment, they came to the Honorable House. What used to be practice under those reforms? I am again doing so to refresh the memory of some of my honorable friends who were my colleagues there and some of whom are now sitting on the Government benches. Whenever Government wanted to have any post created they would come before the House with a supplementary grant, before actually the post was created. If they were not able to estimate the expenditure of that appointment, they used to come to the sanction of the House; the House was committed to that policy very clearly. If, for example, a post of Deputy Secretary to Government was created, which is a very responsible post, then naturally the House must be taken into confidence.
(At this stage THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER came and occupied the Chair)
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Honorable Sir, You were in the Bombay Council ever since 1928, and you will not forget that the practice under Montagu-Chelmsford Reforms was that whenever the Government created any appointment or whenever they wanted to incur any expenditure, they came before the House with a demand for a supplementary grant estimating approximately the expenditure that will be incurred on that post. But when they were not in position to estimated correctly or approximately the expenditure they used to come forward with a token grant of Rs 10 so that the Legislature is committed to that policy of Government. If they sanctioned, the post was created; and if they refused, the post was never created. I will remind the honorable members of one instance. I see my honorable friend Dr. Popatlal is not here. When a brief sessions of 15 days was granted to us eight months ago, during the discussion in a debate, my honorable friend put a question to the Honorable the Chief Minister whether it was not a fact that the post of deputy Secretary, Revenue Department, had been created. In fact the orders creating the post were passed long before, but the Honorable the Chief Minister never got up from his seat and he kept absolutely mum. It was the last day on which the House sat, and eight months have passed since then. Immediately afterwards the post of Deputy Secretary was created and the Deputy Secretary was given charge of the post and he remained there all these 8 months. We have never sanctioned that appointment, and without the sanction of the Assembly the post has been created and even now the supplementary grant has not been placed in our hands.
Now, Sir, will you compare this Ministry favorably which the Montagu-Chelmsford Reforms Ministry? Sir, it is a matter of disgrace for this Honorable House to tolerate this sort of treatment that it is given to it. Sir, a responsible post of Deputy Secretary, to which we members of the Reorganization and Retrenchment Committee have said “ NO “, has been created in a most arbitrary fashion without the sanction of the Assembly being secured. My honorable friend Professor Ghanshyam who was my colleague in that Committee , will bear me out that we were making every possible effort to see that every pie of this poor Province was saved, and yet this is how the post of Deputy Secretary, Revenue Department, has been created.
Then, Sir, what has happened after that? Mr. Gholap I.C.S., a fairly senior officer who was at the time the Registrar of Co-operative Societies is pulled down form that post, and put up as additional Secretary, Finance Department, for 8 months, to learn the work of the Finance Department, in order to succeed Mr. Clee. I have never heard of such a thing happening even in a rich Province like Bombay wherein a senior I.C .S officer may have been appointed to learn work to become ultimately a Secretary.
Then, Sir, there is a very recent instance, about which my honorable friends are not aware. They have created a new special post for one senior confirmed Collector who is drawing at present Rs. 1800 only as pay and then, in addition to that, is entitled to many allowances, staff and other paraphernalia. He will draw first class travelling allowance also. That gentleman has been called to be on special duty for revising Bills.
Sir, I have never heard of such a thing, and I will be very glad if any honorable member corrects me, and I will even request Sir Ghulam Hussain to correct me- he was for 15 years a member of the Bombay Government. Sir, I have never heard of people being called to write Bills. It is the function of the Legal Department What for have these people been created I mean the Deputy Secretary of the Legal Department for which post this Assembly gave his sanction in May last? What work has been found for that gentleman? I hear Mr. Gholap has been complaining that he is being asked to draft all the Bills. They have Mr. Gholap, and also Mr. Taunton, an officer drawing Rs. 3000 to prepare these Bills. Now, Sir, what are the motives of the Ministry behind all this? Sir, we members of the Assembly are being treated as mere hewers of wood and drawers of water. I do not know whether Professor Ghanshayam is told privately by the Honorable the Chief Minister as to what he is doing, but publicly we have never been told anything at all. Boosted headlines appear in the press that this is being done, which is all incorrect information, and we legislators are asked by the press men to believe all that bunkum. The Position is that no one has ever been taken into confidence by the Honorable Chief Minister. I have never been, but what about his own friends? He does not trust his friends either.
Then Sir, these Honorable gentlemen created the posts of Personal Assistants.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : Please say the Honorable Ministers.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Sir “ Gentlemen” is not a bad word. It is a respectable word.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : You may the treasury benches, the Honorable Ministers, the Cabinet or something like that.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Now, Sir, the honorable Minister have been created the posts of Personal Assistants and drafted to them persons of the grade of Mukhtiarkars and Deputy Collectors to assists the Muslim Ministers Why should they not open a school whereat the Ministers can learn the work of Muktiarkars and Deputy Collectors? Sir, Sir Ghulam Hussain was appointed in1921 as Minister to the Government of Bombay. He went 800 miles from here, and he was not given a Mukhtiarkar to do his work. He was given personal clerk only. Sir, the biggest officer in the Bombay Government, Sir Robert Bell or Sir Earnest Hotson, the Executive Councilors, had only personal clerks, ordinary clerks to work with them. It never happened that because their position was greater, therefore they should be given men of higher position to do the work personal clerks for them.
Sir, I particularly object to this matter, that for the last 8 months so much expense has been incurred and no statement has been placed in our hands. We have been treated very shabbily.
Then, Sir, I cannot understand this particular anxiety on the part of present Ministry to have as far as possible acting Collectors in the districts. All the senior Collectors are drafted to the Secretariat for all sorts of jobs which we can never imagine, and then in all the districts acting Collectors are posted for extra administrative purposes. Some one calls himself the Collectors of Sukkur, another the Collector of Thar Parkar, and so on. Sir, within these few months so many vacancies have occurred and they have all been absorbed by these temporary officials. I know the object behind this move. The Government want the support, and they think by appointing acting Collectors they will have them at their beck and call, and these collectors will shake in their shoes when the Minister sends a wait that the Collector must comply with what he wants, because he must see that his job is safe.
May I ask my honorable friend Mr. Sidhwa- he was greatly indignant with Sir Ghulam Hussain, and when I was Secretary, I gave him my reply- has he brought any charge against the present Ministers, as he did before? He should consult his conscience and say whether Sir Ghulam was a better Chief Minister or the present gentleman. Sir, there can be no comparison. It may be said about me that I had closer association with then Government, but Sir, even making allowance for that, as man to man, I will tell my honorable friends in Opposition, that any day as an independent member of this Honorable House, if I were to pass a judgment I will say, Sir Ghulam Hussain was a hundred times better. This has not come from my lips. It has fallen from the lips of a gentleman who was the moving spirit of his party and who has now made no secret of the fact that he was responsible for bringing these Honorable Ministers into the present position.
Now, Sir, we were told that when these Honorable Ministers came into office they would go at airplane speed, that they would turn his this unfortunate earth into a veritable Heaven and that they would do all sort of things. Sir, in spite of the speeches they have delivered in public, they talk big and do nothing else. Nothing short of it. They have done nothing by way of legislation. They have framed no policy or measure for which they can take credit from the public. For the 8 months they have remained in office there has been no session. Sir, they are greater sinners in that respect than Sir Ghulam Husssain. As compared with the eight Provinces in India, this Province continues to be a still born child. This Province has done nothing People coming from other ‘Provinces are laughing at us. They say: “ You in Sind are in the same old wretched condition, no reforms for you and no legislation for the Province of Sind. You are still ruled in the same autocratic manner.” Sir, the present Ministry depends upon the Staff of permanent officials who have nothing to do with politics and have no feelings for the people outside.
Then, Sir, I am reminded of one very important charge leveled against honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain by my honorable friend Mr. Sidhwa that questions were never answered for months and months. I have got a greater grievance on this point against the present Ministry. Many months ago I sent a question asking the Honorable he Chief Minister- and you will see how important a question it was-whether it was not a fact that the Collector of Larkana was wired by him through the Home Secretary to send a certain member to Karachi to appear before Sardar Vallahbhai Patel and say that he was the supporter and follower of the Honorable the Chief Minister. A reply to that question could have been given within 8 days. But no reply has been given up to now although Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel left the limits of this Province some months back. Now can I not under the circumstances accuse the Ministry of having exploited officials for its own political purposes? Why did they make that hallo ballo when Sir Ghulam Hussain was the Chief Minister that he was the gentleman who had been supported by the officials, and that they were canvassing support for him? That was done either to demoralize Sir Ghulam Hussain or his supporters or the officials or God knows what. But now worse things are being done, and I can prove to this Honorable House to the very letter all the charges that I am leveling.
Then, Sir, my honorable friend Mr. G. M. SAYED has quoted six points, and they are very important points. They should not be taken lightly. Off course he spoke about them in a cool, calm and cold manner. But they are very important points. One of them is about the reorganization and retrenchment in the Province. What he said was quite right, because we are groaning under a heavy debt. We are crippled. And Government comes forward and tells us that they have no funds to spend for primary education, public Health, medical reforms, this, that and God knows what. The Congress Party and the Muslim League Party have been crying themselves hoarse over the question of more money being spent on nation-building departments. But there is only one reply from the Khan Bahadur “ No. Unfortunately we have no funds.” We pay Rs. 125000 as debt interest every year.
Mr. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND : No it is Rs 125,00,000.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Yes, that is right We pay Rs. 125 lakhs as debt interest alone very year. I found the Honorable the Chief Minister one day in a very happy mood. He met in the street and said “ You people talk about retrenchment. It is all Bukum. I will go to the Government of India and get all his debt scheme modified , and the Government of India will come forward to our rescue in their mercy and say ‘We write off his debt or a portion of it’. “ Of course I heard the remark, but I was absolutely laughing in my sleeves. The House can be fooled for some time, but not for all the time. Even after eight months of working of the present Ministry we are in the same position as before. My information is- and I speak subject to correction- that these Honorable Minister have been told “ No”, by the Government of India. In spite of that, no step has been taken to curtail the expenditure which is most extravagantly incurred in the Province. No responsible Government has been doing, sanctioning new appointments without consulting this Honorable House, in spite of the fact that we have been groaning under a heavy debt. I know that that the Khan Bahadur will never forgive Sir Ghulam Hussain for having appointed this unfortunate Retrenchment Committee. He disliked that immensely. His attitude was “ You fellows have been talking of retrenchment. What sort of report is the Retrenchment Committee going to produce?” It does not matter Bahadur Allah Bakhsh. My honorable colleagues on the Committee will bear me out in that respect. When the Interim Report was submitted to Government. SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH was at the helm of affairs of this Province. I should have been most loyal to him. But in my loyalty to my leader and to my superior, the Chief Minister, of whom I was the Parliamentary Secretary, I would never betray the trust reposed in me and make proposals which I would conscientiously find were wrong. No, certainly not. I have endorsed every word of that Interim report. Therefore I cannot be accused that I have subsequently signed the Report and made certain proposals which I did not find reasonable. The biggest cut which was proposed was in P.W.D for Rs, 25 lakhs I am speaking from memory. That was proposed when Sir Ghulam Hussain was the Chief Minister. Therefore I cannot be accused that I am in any way bringing any extraneous considerations on the present Ministry done in regard to the recommendation of the Retrenchment Committee for a saving of about Rs 40 lakhs? They have not saved even one-forth of this. I remember Mr. G. M. SAYED said that they should have curtailed the expenditure by at least Rs 15 lakhs. What has been the postion? Government cannot say that we have not given them enough material. We gave it to them months ago. We have done the most responsible work as members of Reorganization Committee with least cost. The whole cost of that Committee has been Rs 15000 in spite of the fact we had a paid Secretary drawing about Rs 800 pay and also there was the office expense. We as members have claimed the lowest allowances and we have put in hard labor. But what is the position? Government have either thrown the report into the waste paper basket or with their present frame of mind they will very rightly be encourage to do that. What will be the position of posterity, the future alone will tell. If the Government is carried on in this way, things will go from bad to worse and posterity will curse us. They will say that the Minister were absolutely unfit to occupy their seats even for a single day.
Then, Sir, the talk of the attitude of officials, improvements and reforms various other things appeared very seductive when they fell from the lips of my honorable friend Mr. G. M. SAYED, but the House has been completely disillusioned on all those points. The Government had no intention of doing anything so long as they merrily sit in those comfortable seats and find a decent number of about 35 members supporting them. Why should they bother at all, when they have a comfortable majority? So far as they are concerned, their attitude appears to be that the devil may take care of the future! (Laughter). Progress is zero. As I have pointed out, for 8 months there has been no progress, and I can assure the Honorable House that there will never be any progress. If the members sit in the company of the Ministers will be very happy, they will never be any progress. If the members sit in the company of the Minister for the next three years, the Minister will be very happy, they will thank them for that, but they will never do anything for the good of the Province. I was very glad when my honorable friend Mr. G. M. SAYED admitted that Sir Ghulam Hussain was less autocratic. He was perfectly right in saying that. I also feel the same thing and I wish to express my feeling. Only I shall not say it so boldly, which will not produce much effect. What I can say is that the present Chief Minister can well be compared with a dictator. What more autocratic gentleman can there be in Sind? He knows the human psychology, and he knows the people of Sind. He is a born Sindhi, and he has taken full advantage of the position. When he finds he can get many traitors in this country, and when he knows and fully realizes what happened at the battle of Miani 90 years ago, how the rulers of Sind were betrayed,- why will he not allow the history to repeat itself? When there are various traitors who do not care for their constituents. . . . . .
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : The honorable member should avoid such remarks.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: I am using the word in a general sense, Sir, I am not making any personal attack on any individuals.
Now Sir, one thing for which at any rate the Honorable the Chief Minister and his colleagues claimed credit when they took over office was the amendment of the Ministers’ Salaries Act. My honorable friends on the right were very jubilant They said “ Here are the gentleman who are following the Congress principles. They are selfless, they are getting their Salaries Act modified. The salaries given to the previous Ministers were very heavy and these people are quite content with Rs. 800 only. “Well, Sir, Perhaps they may have as well said that they were following Mahatma Gandhi. In order to analyze that position I have sent questions, but unfortunately they have Government so desired, in two days. I sent them months ago.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : So have I.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Compare, Sir, the expense incurred by only one Minister of the present Ministry with the expense incurred by the previous Ministers. I had stated to the honorable member Mr. Ghanshyam, the Leader of the Congress group, at the time when that Amending Bill was brought before this House, and I am again telling him to-day, that these Honorable Ministers are spending in the neighborhood of Rs 1500, if not more. Of course, I am not in possession of the exact facts, because though I have attempted to get the figures through them, they have not yet been good enough to supply me with them. When those question that the travelling allowance alone amounts to no less than Rs 1000 per mensem. Let the public, who had listened very attentively at the time when I was opposing the Bill and moving my amendment, see whether they are right or I was right. I challenge them on the floor of this House and say that their Bill comes to no less than Rs. 1500.
The Honorable House knows that the Honorable the Chief Minister is occupying a palatial bungalow at the expense of Government. All the expense is incurred by Government ; every-thing is found by Government electricity. . . . . . . . . .
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: No, Sir.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Water rate, mali charges, garden expenses, laying out expenses, furniture, breakage etc. You know, Sir, what is not required for such a big bungalow. Is that real economy, I ask? In addition to that, each one of these Honorable Ministers is given Rs. 150 a month for the car and they are at perfect liberty to purchase any costly car which may be worth 4 thousands or 5 thousands of rupees. They are using the car mercilessly, because it is somebody else’s property, the tax payer’s property. They travel about in that luxious car merrily with their flag flying high at the expense of the poor tax payer. I was told by one honorable gentleman outside- I need not mention his name- that the Honorable the Revenue Minister did 250 miles in a day ! ! ! He had then gone to see cotton crop. Now, Sir, imagine an Honorable Minister doing 250 miles in a day, what would he first of all see of that crop? What time will he able to spend seeing that crop? Then calculate how much it would cost in the shape of travelling allowance. It would be nearly Rs. 100 per day. This is the way in which the poor tax payer’s money is being frittered away by the Honorable Ministers.
Sir, I was very amused when I read in the Sind Government Gazette the tour program of the Honorable Minister. He went on a brief visit to see and inspect the cotton crop as if he is an expert on Agriculture and Revenue matters, (laughter) and as if he knows it perfectly well knows it more than the Deputy Collector or the Collectors do. I am sure, Sir, they can teach him. He went from Karachi to Matiari: one jump. The second jump was to Sakrand. When I went the other day there, I had an opportunity of meeting Makhdum Sahib and he told me that the Pir Sahib had merely passed from that side. Then from Sakrand he goes to Moro and from there to Sukkur. That is to say he travelled from North Pole to South Pole.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: I never went to Sukkur.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Your tour program was published in the Sind Government Gazette.
Then from Sukkur he motored through the whole length and breadth of the Larkana district to Dadu and at Dadu he spent a night at his house.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: Be sure about that.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Then he goes from Machhur to Dadu Sub-division and Kotri Sub-division to give consolation to my honorable friend sitting here(laughter).
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Order, order.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Sir, this is the tour of the great Honorable Minister which must have cost the tax payer nearly Rs. 5000. I wish those 5 thousands of rupees should have been given to the poor people of this Province, who would have got some relief. It is the poor tax payer, Sir , who bears the burden of this Rs. 5000 and the money goes on jingling in the Pocket of the Honorable Minister and people get no relief.
I am sorry, Sir, yesterday the mover of the adjournment motion withdrew it in an unceremonious manner. I wish it had been discussed and we would have had an opportunity of expressing our views.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH : Sir, on a point of explanation. I withdrew it because, as soon as I came, my honorable friends, Mr. Sayed and Mr. Gazdar told me to withdraw it, and it was therefore that I withdrew it.
Mr. G. M. SAYED : Sir, I never told him to withdraw.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Mr. Gazdar told me so.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO : Sir, I do not want to quarrel with Sir Ghulam Hussain or anybody else. I am not concerned with anybody. I represent that Right Bank of the Indus and I am glad that it did not receive the visit of the Honorable Minister- at least it received one visit less. We are here responsible to the Province as a whole and such we shall be doing the greatest service to the people of the Province if we do our duty in a most responsible manner and all that we act and do is for the good of the people. What is the good of passing resolutions in Thul Conference, the Naushahro Conference and the various other conferences? I was told the other day, and also read in Newspapers, that recently my Congress friends had a big conference at Thul where the Honorable the Chief Minister had the honor to be present. There a resolution was passed, possibly unanimously, that 50 per cent. Rebate should be given. I speak this from memory. These honorable gentleman from the Congress have sworn to-day not to open their mouths whereas they should have opened their mouths very wide. These honorable gentleman who are responsible to the country do not know how long they can fool the people. After passing the resolution asking Government to do this for the country, for the poor agriculturists, they remain chup (quiet) when a question comes up which may affect the present Ministry. At least we expect from the Congress Benches, which are occupied by responsible men who belong to a party that has fought hard for 20 years for the freedom of the country, that they should follow a better code of consistency.
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: No, 50 years.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: I am calculating it from the time when Mahatma Gandhi had a tour of Sind somewhere about 1920. They have fought bravely for the country and what a poor specimen of its representatives we find in this Assembly ! In 8 provinces they are ruling and they are doing their utmost for the good of the people. They have passed measures for relief of agriculturists and the poor. They gave all sort of promises to the country and to the people. I say this in a most friendly spirit. I have no quarrel with them; I merely remind them of their duty. These gentlemen are the most responsible , the most disciplined party and I give them credit for it. This is the largest disciplined party and certainly a much more disciplined party than even our own party; and being a disciplined party, they can exercise a healthy influence on the Government of the Province. I wish they were every time reminded of their duty. They should never forget their duty. They should keep their duty above every consideration and if they do their duty properly, I challenge Government, we would succeed. This is the way in which we are being let down. I say, Sir, I have proved who would change their creed just as I change my coat every morning like my honorable friend Miss Jethibai who changes her dress every morning.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Don’t be personal.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Sir, considering the present position of this Honorable House, I can’t refrain from expressing my views so very clearly. Now, Sir, the Ministers have not done anything for the masses. May I also remind them what they have not done and what they should have done? As my friends I will tell them that I am always proud to be reminded of the fact that however much-maligned the Ministry of Sir Ghulam Hussain may be, it was any day much better than the present Ministry of Honorable Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh.
Sir, I will now come to compulsory primary education which is the dire necessity of the Province. We have written a Chapter in the Reorganization Report about it and I will also refer where the most miserable condition of the Province of Sind is depicted. What percentage of literate people have we got in Sind? At least in my place only 3 per cent. Of the educated people are available. Sir Ghulam Hussain during his regime sanctioned Rs 55000 for compulsory education, but what has this Honorable House seen? With all the boasting that the Minister was going on at Air Mail’s speed or airplane’s speed, they have slept over even those 55000 rupees. The scheme for Sukkur District Local Board comes as late as in October 1938, whereas Sir Ghulam Hussain got the budget sanctioned in March 1938. After 7 months they have sanctioned a scheme for one little taluka of Dadu has now been sanctioned and it will be given effect to in February or March next. I told the Honorable the Chief Minister some time back- I hope he will remember my talk- “ You have got surplus funds, even if you are not able to save anything out of Rs 55000. Particularly you may get something from the Government of India by way of Petrol tax.” Therefore you can easily save one lakh of rupees for compulsory education this year and this amount will be quite sufficient at least for introducing compulsory education in 6 talukas and you can very conveniently give satisfaction to one taluka in each district with one stroke of the pen”. But what has he done? Even out of Rs. 55000 sanctioned by Sir Ghulam Hussain, I will not be surprised if most of the money is surrendered at the end of the year because these schemes have only just been sanctioned. They will come into effect in February or March, by which time these 55000 will have to be surrendered to Government. They have care to do anything for the masses. The masses have been neglected absolutely. It is the duty of every Government to make people literate. Why has the crime rate increased In our Province? The fundamental cause why the crime has increased is that there is illiteracy in the Province. People do not know the value of morality. They do not know what their duties are towards the Society. We must teach them what are the rules of morality. It is the primary duty of Government to do so. They must teach them and out forth every effort to make them literate. There is the example of Bombay Government with which we were intimately connected till lately. There are the examples of Madras Government and the U.P Government where there are Congress Ministries. I remember the other day I read in the papers that U.P. Government are trying everything possible even to have adult education. They have invited people to come forward and offer their services to do something towards adult education. Our Honorable Chief Minister never thinks for a moment even to have adult education. He might treat it with contempt if any such proposal is made before him. But apart from that, he has not been able to do anything even for company primary education.
Sir, the Larkana District Local Board sent a proposal about 6 months back for compulsory education, but the Honorable the Chief Minister will not place it even on his table because in that district there will be more than two talukas under compulsory education. Sir, I say to my friend: The Reorganization Committee has very clearly given you to understand, and very clearly recommended unanimously, that each year you should have compulsory education at least in 8 talukas-one taluka in each district where compulsory education can be introduced. This way during the course of 8 years you will have full fledged compulsory education throughout the Province. But here what is the condition? The Ministry has no intention of spending where expenditure is most desirable and necessary.
Sir, then I come to the other Department of Public Health Medical and Sanitation. My Honorable friend the Public Works Department Minister is in-charge of this Department. He does not care a bit if Rs. 85000 are spent away on the erection of a building. He does not care if the Government house is built at a cost of Rs. 8 lakhs, which will be a sheer waste of money which this Province can ill-afford. He will never come forward with a substantial amount to be spent on the nation-building departments. He is a very clever lawyer. I give him so much credit for his ability. He can put his case very well. But I am sorry to remark that he has always attempted to-what term should I use?- hoodwink particularly the honorable members of this House. I hope, Sir, it is not un parliamentary to use that word. I will remind him. He made a statement in this Honorable House, when he brought a supplementary demand to this House in May session, that he was going to have one dispensary in each district. As a member of the District Local Board, we had to analyze what that offer with thanks. Now they have given Rs. 1000 for opening a dispensary-as if a very great favor has been conferred on the district. My honorable friend Dr. Popatlal will bear me out that one thousand rupees is hardly sufficient for the salary of one Medical Officer, he is not going to cost us anything less than one thousand rupees per year. Then what about medicines and the rent of the building and what about the cost of the instruments to be used? Who is going them to pay for them? After giving us one thousand rupees the Government will come down upon the District Local Boards saying “ Here you are. We have done a very great favor to you by giving you one thousand rupees and you are not working properly”. But, Sir, we have rejected their offer. We have already got 12 hospitals of our own in our district which are managed by us. We have got 24 maternity homes running to-day on our district.”
I Challenge anybody in the House to show me any other District Local Board which is doing as much as for public health as our district. I challenge even the Honorable The Chief Minister or the Government to show us if they have done so much for Larkana has done. It is on the record. A question was answered here on the floor of this House and the Honorable the Minister for Public Health can refer to the questions and see and compare the work that he would appear in big headlines of “Sind Observer” next day: “Here is the minister for the masses who has done a very great thing for the Province.”
Now at least, everybody knows after analysis of the whole question what is that great favor conferred upon the country. It is how I have just analyzed.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: How long will the honorable member take?
KHAN BAHADUR M.A. KHUHRO: Just a few minutes more, Sir. I might carry on upto 7 o’clock if you permit me.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: No, that is not fair.
KHAN BAHADUR M.A. KHUHRO: Now, Sir, I am coming to Law and Order. But before I come to the actual question of Law and Order, I must, in passing, refer to the most miserable condition of the masses who are agriculturist in our Province. My honorable friend there always says and gives us to understand that his heart is burning over questions affecting the masses- I am referring to my honorable friend Mr. Muhammad Amin Khoso. I wish he would open his mouth to-day and say something for the masses. Now these masses are drowned in debts. I will refer my honorable friend the Chief Minister to the report of the Banking Enquiry Committee appointed by the Government of Bombay. I will also refer him to the report on the Land Mortgage Banks issued by Mr. K. L. Punjabi, the Registrar, Co-operative Societies. If he reads it,he will be immensely surprised to find what is the amount of debts under which people of this Province are groaning. NO Legislative measures have been brought forward in this Honorable House for the redress of the grievances of the masses. I give credit to the Government of Madras for what they have done for the masses in their Province. I give credit to the Congress Ministries because they have their utmost for the masses. But here in our Province we hear only empty speeches. I get disgusted when I read columns and columns full of propaganda for the Ministry. Spurious propaganda is being carried on thorough the papers. On one side we have got the congress friend who address big meetings telling people “ We will do this thing for you, we will do that thing for you. This thing will be done and that thing will be done.” But if we look to their actions, they have never attempted even to exercise their healthy influence on the Ministry in order to see if they have done those things. They have at any rate failed to do anything for the masses. So far as the Honorable Minister are concerned, I was very much amused when one of the Honorable Ministers, the Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas, the Minister for the Public Works Department, was telling me at Larkana “ Oh, Here is the Dekkan Agriculturists Relief Act, which is God’s mercy to the Province of Sind.” Now, Sir, I have heard the same story as a legislator, when I was in the Bombay Council. When this measure was brought up, Sir Earnest Hotson was the Home Member- you must also be remembering
Sir,-Sir, Hotson brought a measure to cancel the application of the Dekkan Agriculturist Relief Act to the Province of Sind. Sir, what abuses were not hurled at the Act? Did he not state that the Act was absolutely useless for Sind? Every member of the Council then got up one after another and was saying that the Act was absolutely a dead letter in the Province. We expected much out of it, but it has done little. We quite agree with you, but this thing which in your mercy you gave us,- don’t take this little thing till you have done something better”; and the good old man was moved and he withdrew the amendment. Sir, first of all the Government should consider what they are going to do for the agriculturists to see that whatever little we have is not taken away. So the Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas has pursued that very good policy. Sir, he is a very capable gentleman and he can draft measures. It is nothing impossible for him to do so and to get an enactment through this Assembly. I say “ Do something better and come out with it.” He is one of the ablest men in this Assembly and possibly the ablest man on the Government benches. Why does he not draft some Bill and say “ Here is my Act which I have produced for the agriculturists, and please be satisfied with it? It is much better than the other thing.” Sir, before he has done anything of the Kind he is arguing that the present Bill is a matter of good fortune to the Province. Sir, they are hoodwinking the masses. We know what the agriculturists want. I am a born agriculturist. I may tell him, and he must believe my word, that I am an agriculturist and he is not. I can tell him with authority what the position of the agriculturist is.
Then, Sir, I come to the question of law and order. There is one cursed measure known as the Sind Frontier Regulations. I am surprised at my honorable friend who is smiling and who represents the Jacobabad district here. He is an educated man. He does not rise in revolt saying that you must withdraw this measure.
Mr. M. A. KHOSO : It is going to die.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: It is not going to die, I can assure the honorable member. The Honorable chief Minister, you must be remembering, Sir, was our colleague since 1926 in the Bombay Council, and he was never tried of sending question after questions against this measure. He always used to send complaints and speak in hostels, in the opne house and outside, against this measure. Now, Sir, my friend moved a resolution that this Regulation should be withdrawn. What does he say now ? He says “ I cannot do that now, I am in a responsible position now. I will consider- I am going to give you a Committee.” What sort of Committee is he pleased to appoint , Sir? A Committee under the chairmanship of one who was dead against the withdrawal of the Regulation. My honorable friend Mr. G. M. SAYED has sent his resignation immediately after that, saying that he was not prepared to serve there. Now, Sir, that measure, the Sind Frontier Regulations, which he hated most, and which he can with one stroke of the pen withdraw, is still on Statute and when we gave him an opportunity for removing it, he never availed himself of it. By sheer force of numbers he wanted to hoodwink the House and actually got the resolution turned down by the promise of appointing a Committee. I remember Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh, when he was in Opposition, accusing Sir Ghulam Hussain wanted to get rid of having appointed these committees. Sir Ghulam Hussain will bear me out. He said in clear terms “Whenever Sir Ghulam Hussain wanted to ge rid of a thing he would appoint a committee.” He has now proved himself worse in the respect. I am going to come to that. He accused his predecessor that whenever he wanted to get over a difficulty he appointed a committee. Now on this most important thing he himself has appointed a committee. We urged that the measure should be withdrawn immediately. On the top of it, my honorable friend or some other gentleman moved a resolution that the Criminal Tribes Act should be removed. Then, Sir, he by the overwhelming strength of numbers objected to the resolution and he consoled the honorable members by saying these words “ You must be satisfied with this assurance. I will call off this measure within one month. I shall call my officials and samjhau them. In the meantime I am telling them to be careful and to be considerate and not to use this measure harshly. I will then discuss with you and tell you how this measure should be further dealt with.” That one month is long past, and I do not think my honorable friend ever cared to invite the members or to take their views. Sir, that measure is a standing disgrace to the Province of Sind, and those people, called Haris, are the worse off for it. The man find himself in an unfortunate position. If he is not subservient, if he is not docile towards the local petty Police Officials, the Inspectors or the Sub-Inspectors, the next day you will find his name in the Gazette. The Honorable Chief Minister will sign whatever is put before him, and the notification will appear saying that the man involved was the member of a notorious Criminal Tribe. The poor wretch will then be compelled to pay his salaams to the police daily, wash their utensils, graze their cattle, and even shampoo them and their guests. That is the Government of the Honorable Chief Minister. Sir, those Government officers and Sub-Inspectors rule the Province. Can there be a greater corruption than this?
Now, Sir, what measures has he adopted to do away with such an evil in the Province-for remedying such a state of affairs? Nothing whatever. In every Gazette you will find some people being gazette every now and then as Criminal Tribes men. I know it is a Government of India Act, but he has the power at any rate to stop these notifications. He has power to stop these publications in the Gazette and prevent any people from being classed as Criminal Tribes men if he has really the heart. Let me briefly explain the object underlying this measure. The object underlying this measure was that people should be improved. That being so, for improvement this is to establish Criminal Tribes, may learn to read and write and learn other industries and agriculture. What has he done in that direction? Nothing, Sir.
Now, Sir, this is what he has done with regard to law and order, and this is the gift which he has given to the people. I do not know what he will say in his defense, but if there were an impartial tribunal, I know I have proved my case against him.
Now, Sir, I am coming to the question of corruption, Now, my honorable friend, our Leader, Sir Ghulam Hussain, when he was the Chief Minister, had appointed a Committee- a conference for corruption, in order to suggest ways and means by which corruption could be put down. Let me tell him that during the regime of Sir Ghulam HUssain at any rate two committees have functioned and they were working under the Chairmanship of Mir Bandeh Ali Khan and the Honorable Dr. Hemandas, the Public Works Department Minister. The Public Works Department Committee has completed its work and also the Revenue Committee has completed its work and also the Revenue Committee. But after all these 10 months, the Honorable Chief Minister was suddenly reminded on the 5th of January that there was such a thing as a miserable committee appointed some months ago, and that he has to face the question in the Assembly. Suddenly remembering that and thinking they might put question in the Assembly and take him to task for it on the 5th of January, I was invited by him to discuss. . . . . . .
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : On the 5th December.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: At that time we were with honorable member Mr. Sidhwa and he was the attitude of the Honorable the Chief Minister, and that must have given satisfaction to him that they have no intention to stop corruption in the country. On the contrary, whatever recommendations were made by the Committee, they were moderate, and be it said to the credit of my honorable friend Dr. Hemandas Wadhwani he was bold enough to endorse those recommendation. He was then a responsible officer of Government. He signed those recommendations. My other honorable friend Mir Bandeh Ali Khan also did likewise. Soon after that, unfortunately they went out of office. And to-day their successors think those are very bad and nasty reports, and that they are very rotten. And in the manner the Public Works Department Minister started, these reports will not be taken up till Doomsday. We made those recommendations to Government for their consideration. We were not wasting the valuable time either of ourselves or of Government. Let them satisfy themselves on that point.
Then I come to the tour of two of the Honorable Ministers. The Honorable the Revenue Minister has been the foremost in collecting petitions. His chief hobby after he entered office was to make all sorts of irresponsible public statements,- statements which he would never be able to fulfill-and to encourage the people to make petitions when he went on tour. When those poor devils found after some time that no action was taken on their petitions, they came to Karachi for the redress of their grievances, but the pattewallas turned them back and they went home. Of course the Government of India earned some money on account of the rail journey of these people. But the Sind Government should have given them some money on account of the Rail journey of these people, But the Sind Government should have given them some amount for their travelling expenses and their hotel expenses in Karachi. They went back home, sad and disappointed. This is how the people are being fooled. Unfortunately in Sind the Public opinion does not rise equal to the occasions. If all the members in this Assembly realize that we are responsible member of the society and are responsible representatives of the people, those gentlemen (pointing to ministerial benches) would not be in their seats to-day. Is there any redeeming feature in their administration? I want to ask my honorable colleagues on the Congress benches, and I want to ask my honorable colleagues on the Congress benches, and I want to ask my honorable friend Mr. Jamshed who is the foremost in supporting the present Ministry,- God knows for what reasons,- whether they think that they have justified their position. It is a false cry to call Sir Ghulam Hussain’s Ministry a communal Ministry, and this Ministry an anti-communal Ministry.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER : The honorable member Mr. Jamshed has not yet indicated his intention.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: I have seen press reports, Sir.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Until he has said that, the honorable member need not criticize it.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Now, Sir, I will only curiously read the main points. I have already discussed fully most of the points. I will only curiously read the main points on which Sir Ghulam Hussain incurred the wrath of my honorable friend Mr. Sidhwa and his party.
First is the delay in calling the session for five months But this Government did not call one for nearly 8 months. Who is the greater culprit?
The second point is based on the grievance on the score of delay in constructing an Assembly Hall. You will find, Sir, that another 12 months have passed. Nothing has been done For want of accommodation people sitting in the Gallery are cramped and many are kept out. I was very glad to read a statement in the Press the other day in which the writer has been at pains to show what the present Ministry has done. I believe the author is the Honorable Minister for Public Works Department, through I am not quite sure. All I can say is “ Better late than never”.
The third point is delay in replying to questions. I find the present Ministers are worse criminals in that respect.
The fouth point is extravagance in expenditure. I say the present Ministers are most extravagant. Knowing and realizing that we have nothing, that we are beggars In a very poverty stricken province where the masses are groaning under old conditions, with the zulum of the low paid officials, corruption, and at the same time without any sanitary conditions, with no provision for public health, or education, the Government go on creating fat appointments, creating more secretaries and are going ahead merrily. The Secretaries will bring everything cut and dried before the Ministers who will accept them, but do nothing for the good of the Province.
Then, Sir, my honorable friend Mr. Sidhwa wanted to cut down 10 per cent in the contingencies. Have they curtailed even 2 percent. Even after 12 months? I am very glad when all departments. But nowhere has the expenditure been reduced and instead it has increased.
Finally about the separation of the judiciary from the executive. What is he position? The Ministers feel that they have done a great thing by appointing 5 sub-judges, for which the people should be thankful. They have appointed 5 sub-judges, of course favoritism apart. They might take shelter behind the Public Service Commission. I know what it is. Men who had real qualifications, men who had had enough of experience have not been selected. But those who are “ bachas” practicing for 12 months or happen to be very old men, have been appointed. This is a great courtesy and consideration shown to the people. The Minister seem to think that this is the be-all and end-all of the question and that we should be contented with that. I maintain, Sir, that this sort of separation of the executive from the Judiciary is all talk.
Then, Sir, whatever words I may use will not be adequate to give due importance to the recommendations of Reorganization Committee. They are very valuable recommendations, and it is a very useful Report. But so far we have not heard of any action being taken by Government. When it appeared in the papers that the Honorable Minister for Public Works Department had retrenched Rs. 6 to Rs. 7 lakhs in his department, I laughed. I know I am not giving out a secret and my honorable friend Mr. Ghanshyam will bear me out when I say that Mr. Gordon, Chief Engineer, Public Works Department, made a statement in the Reorganization Committee, but the Public Works Department budget is usually over-budgeted. I challenge the Honorable Minister to say whether he has taken action on the various recommendations made by the Committee. The Public Works Department is a pet child of the Government and as much money is being spent by it now as in the past, if not more. Anyone who is not a keen observer will think that the so-called retrenchment of Rs 6 to 7 lakhs is great achievement. But that is not so in reality; it was only extra heavy budgeting.
Then, Sir, on the top of it, when the Reorganization Committee was sitting a specific question was put to us in regard to the Department of Agriculture whether we were in favor of 5 appointments of class 1. We replied “ No.” We said that at the most our specific recommendation would be that there should be only 2 men of class 1. And yet all the appointments are created in class 1, thus throwing our recommendation into the waste paper basket! Sir, I ask, what was the need in this small province of creating call 1 appointments? You can get the same people with the qualifications of class 2. They have got that Scotchman who spend 85 lakhs of rupees, nearly 65 percent of the revenue of this Province on the Public Works Department. Perhaps according to them the only nation building department is the Public Works Department and Sind is Public Works Department. The present Government is no better than it was before. If this is the state of affairs, I think, Sir, His Excellency the Governor in his mercy may tell us to go back home, dissolve this Assembly, andput Khan Bahadur Allah Baksh as his only Adviser. Then there will be less expense.
There will then be no such huge travelling expense and monthly salaries. At any rate there will be no difference except changing the masters. These masters are no better than those masters. Those masters were better because they spent less. At present the Secretaries and Heads of Departments are for all practical purposes the Government of this country.
The Joint Election Bills has not yet seen the light of the day. The discretionary grant of the Governor is the same as before. The grievance about officers are the same as before. The have not changed their mentality. If any honorable member wishes to satisfy himself, let him ask the Congress men who have been going to the villages from time no time and holding meetings. Although I have not had the honor of attending these meetings myself, at any rate I have read in newspapers and got the second-hand information which I think is absolutely correct. What is the condition of the masses? I challenge any of these 10 members of the Congress to get up and say that the condition of the masses has changed after the ministry has come into the office. Now under those conditions, may I ask this Honorable House in all seriousness whether this Ministry can stay for which the Muslim League appointed a committee to investigate, but unfortunately we have not had time. If I were to go into it, it will take me the whole of to-day and tomorrow as well and the Honorable the Chief Minister will get up every now and then from his seat and question it. I shall mention all the points and will challenge him to prosecute me I shall be ready to repeat the same statement in the Khalikdina Hall and ask him if he has the courage to prosecute me.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: Do please.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: I am not saying this out of personal zid or personal malice. He has been my friend since 1926 and we have been colleagues toghther. But I am here as a representative, as an advocate, of my constituency and In all seriousness I say that what I have said is the truth, nothing else bty truth.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The House will now rise till 2-00 p.m. to-morrow.
(Date: 10th January 1939)
THE HONORABLE Mr. Nihchaldas C. Vazirani: Sir oppose this no-confidence motion. Before I enter into the merits of the case, I would also like to make a few observations. Sir, you know that before I was elected to this post of service, I was an advocate. As an advocate, I am accustomed to find the best friends of mine on the opposition, and so it does not cause me any surprise in any way. In fact, Sir, in many of the cause I have seen the advocates on the opposite side put up such a strong fight that the clients on spectators come to the conclusion that the advocates would be enemies forever. But they are surprised to find that immediately the advocates leave the court, they are as good friends, if not better than before. So I assure the honorable member Mr. G.M. Sayed and honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro that for all that they have said, I continue to be their friend and shall continue to be their friend hereafter. In fact, I have known the honorable member Mr. G. M Sayed for the last 13 or 14 years, and in spite of his weakness I love him and treat him as a friend. As far as honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro is concerned, from the very first day I saw him in this Assembly, I have admired him for his cleverness and grasp of facts, and my admiration for him has increased after hearing his yesterday’s speech. I know that he had no case. He was advocating a very bad case, so much so that the honorable the mover of the motion created no impression whatsoever. But the honorable member Khan Bahadur out the case in such choice language and put it so ably that it seemed that it was considered to be a plausible speech. But, Sir, I am accustomed to this. I have many times found, after the Public Prosecutor had closed his address to the gentleman of the jury seemed to form the opinion that the accustomed was guilty. But as soon as the fallacies in the arguments of the Public Prosecutor were exposed, I always succeeded in getting for my client not only a verdict of not guilty but an honorable acquittal.
I, as was pointed out by the honorable member Khan Bahadur, depend on my deeds and nothing else. The strength of my case alone will vindicate our honor. In a sense I am very glad that this no-confidence motion has been brought, because it affords us an opportunity not only to acquaint the honorable members of this House, but the public not only of Sind but of the whole of India, with what we have done and to find out whether we merit to retain our office of service or we must quit.
Now, before I go into the merits , I would like to make one other observation, and that is this. This no-confidence motion is certainly premature. The main complaint that is made is about the assessments proposals. They have still to come before this House. The only pint that has been selected is the sliding scale, which is an innovation and a new system in this province. Objections have been and it will be only then that Government will come to their final decision. To condemn us before we actually pass irrevocable orders in the case is certainly, according to me, not very constitutional. But, Sir, that is apart.
Even as regards our other work, Sir, it must be remembered that we in this year are spending the money provided in the budget for previous year. That budget was not of our making. For any nation-building work we must first of all come before this House for money, and certainly if the honorable members had patience for only about a month, they would have found that we have made adequate provision-at least we propose to make adequate provision for all nation-building departments.
Sir, leaving that where it is, I now come to the merits of the case. Firstly to a personal reference to the Minister. It is said that the Minister said that they would be drawing Rs. 800 a month, but that they have been drawing much more than their predecessors. Sir, that is not correct. I assure the honorable speakers as well as this Honorable House that I have drawn not a pie more than Rs. 800 a month. There is the question of Travelling Allowance. Now Travelling allowance is drawn by these Ministers only. Travelling Allowance is drawn under the rules, and our predecessors in the office used to draw the same Travelling Allowance.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : Same?
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Yes, same.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Kindly give figures.
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Yes , I will give figures. Please have patience. I never speak without figures.
Now, I find I am supported by the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro. As a member of the Re-organization Committee, he very rightly suggested that the Ministers should do extensive touring. They certainly cannot do touring at their own cost out of the Rs. 500 paltry sum. It is not possible. Sir, I need not to take a long time of this House because this was a point not worth being raised in the House. All the same, because it has been raised, I have to answer it. I, Sir, did tour for 50 days touring at the rate of Rs. 320 on petrol and Mobil oil. Rs. 176 was railway fare. That leaves Rs. 496 in all. Then Sir, I have to make arrangements for my private kit and for everything else, and the total amount that I have drawn is only 1700 during all these ten months.
Mr. G. M. SAYED : For 50 days.
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : 50 days travelling at different times.
Now, Sir, I must bring to the notice of the honorable members who may not be knowing, that when I move out on tour. I work from 14 to 16 hours a day.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: What work? (Laughter).
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : I make my Personal Assistant and peons work for all that long period and give them meals myself. The Ministers have also to take with themselves extra servants, whose expense they have also to bear. I request the House to accept my statement when I say that on return from tour I find myself poorer than when I start on it.
This amount is hardly enough to make both ends meet.
Sir, a reference was made that when Honorable Ministers move on tour, they accept dinners, and so forth. It certainly is unimaginable that when an elected Minister moves on tour,
He should break off all social connections. At Hyderabad, Nawab Shah and various other places, I invited various friends and gentry to lunch and dinner. Certainly social connections have to be kept up and the expense on such functions has to be incurred by the Minister. I make bold to say that never in my whole tour did I ever accept anything from any public officer or nay public servant. The only social functions that were held were elected Presidents of Municipalities and district local Boards or some of my friends, and one of them is the honorable member Mr. G. M. SAYED. I know it that as a hospitable gentleman, he ordered my servants not to even kindle fire, and he compelled them to do so. Now, that cannot be called Rasai or corruption. He is still my friend and here we dine together and there also we dined together.
Coming to the comparatives figures, as I have already said, I drew only Rs. 1700 for my tour during 10 months, and I have toured throughout the whole Province; while my predecessor in office drew Rs. 1232 in the 3 or 4 months that he was in office as travelling allowance.
A reference was also made about the bungalows. Certainly, I do not occupy any Government bungalow. The Honorable the Chief Minister does occupy a Government bungalow. The Honorable House knows, I think that leader of the Opposition, when he was a Minister, also occupied a Government bungalow, for which he used to pay only Rs. 150 as rent, and that same amount Is being paid by the Honorable the Chief Minister. In fact, if the honorable members remember, in the last budget the previous Cabinet had made a provision of nearly half a lakh of rupees for building a new bungalow for the Minister. We did not spend that amount, so that it cannot be said that the present Ministry has incurred expenditure in excess of that incurred by the previous Ministry. Of course, in addition to Rs. 800, we have got a Government car. I have gone in for a Ford car which as you know, is the best and the cheapest and which, I claim, is still in the same good order in which I took it, because I take pretty good care to keep it in fine order.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: Is a radio there?
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Everything is mine at my expense except the Government car.
A reference was made about the tour and it was asked what good the tour does. Even the Re-organization Committee has recommended that Ministers should have an extensive tour. But the fact is so obvious that I need not narrate any facts. However, I will give one or two instances to show what good the tour does to the public. It was my tour in Kashmore that revealed to me that there was one lakh of acres of land which was undeveloped. I immediately ordered that an immediate survey should take place.
My visit to Sukkur District in company of the honorable member Mr. Pamnani revealed to me the fact that the people in that area were hard pressed and had, for want of cultivation in that tract, to migrate to other places such as Bahawalpur and Baluchistan. I took care to see that works of Rs 160000 were started before I actually left the District. I did it by wire and got the money, and actually ordered the Executive and superintending Engineers to start works; those works have started and, when completed in the very next Kharif season, are foing to bring an additional area of 30000 acres under cultivation in Kharif alone, leave alone the Rabi. The first time that I toured the Karachi District, I came to know of several difficulties of those people. Of course the honorable member Mr. Gazdar had supplied us with enough material not only for session but for all previous sessions as well, as he used to take pretty good care to see the grievances of all the poor residents of the Karachi District were brought to the notice of Government. Thus I Had enough material when I went there to investigate these complaints. I talked over the matters with the Executive Engineers, heard the people, knew their grievance, and invited their suggestions. As a result of all this, I immediately appointed a Project Officer who has actually prepared schemes which are now under consideration, and I do hope that the income in the Karachi District, so far as the Government is concerned, will be double that of the previous year.
If, Sir, this-and in this the honorable member Mr. Valecha will bear me out- when I went and visited Sukkur, I found that that Municipality were not discharging their duty in connection with public health and sanitation in their own Municipal areas.
There was a disgraceful spot in the heart of the Sukkur Town itself and I took very keen interest in that matter and passed orders and got that nuisance to a very large extent reduced. That was the result of my personal inspection. Although it was not a duty which should have fallen to the lot of a Minister, still I did it.
Similarly whenever I have been on tour, I have received deputations at every place and they gave me complaints of various natures and I personally looked into them.
When I went om tour and encamped at NawabShah for 3 or 4 days, I received several petitions. The Superintending Engineer and the Executive Engineers were there. I made it a rule that those petitions should be disposed of on the very next day.
When I go on tour, I actually see the applications because I have got regulars registers maintained about application for peech badals. I knew there was an inordinate delay in the disposal of those applications for various reasons. In some cases there was a delay of as much as two years. I have issued orders that they should be disposed of within three months, and I have had actually lists prepared and if there is any inordinate delay, I personally take notice of it and see that the applications are disposed of.
I entirely agree with the suggestion of the Re-organization Committee that Ministers should do more extensive touring, come in contact with the masses, know their grievances and wants, and take steps to remedy them.
Mention was made about the delay in the disposal of applications. I assure the honorable members that almost all the applications which I have received have been disposed of by me in a day, some may have taken 2 or 3 days. Certainly there would be some applications which require an elaborate inquiry. I have therefore to forward such applications to my Department to deal with and ultimately the report will have to be submitted to me.
Sir, it cannot possibly be said that this party sum of Rs 1700 that I Have spent on tour has not been well spent. The permanent service people in the shape of permanent travelling allowance draw that is no pleasure to the Ministers to tour. It is really a hard job for them. In some places, visitors continue to see me even upto 12 midnight and would not allow me to sleep. On tour I have to leave my family and others.
Now, the second item with which I am concerned is the construction of the Assembly Hall. Sir, I assure the honorable members that nobody is more anxious than Myself to see that Assembly Hall is constructed immediately. Mr. Anderson was appointed as an architect. Honorable member Mr.Sidhwa knows that I sent for him personally. I had a personal talk with the architect in the presence of honorable member Mr. Sidhwa himself when he promised to give me all work in about 2-3 months time. It was on the strength of that statement made before me in the presence of honorable member Mr. Sidhwa, that I made the statement even on the floor of this House. But, Sir, some delay does take place. I do not say that the architect is not to be blamed at all, but I must also admit accommodation was concerned. Sir, there are several things which have to be looked into, and I am glad to inform the House that I have received a reply from Mr. Anderson that he will send plans and quantities within a few days. He has also intimated that he is trying to have a partner Mr. Asarpota who was an architect here. He belongs to Sind. He has also intimated to us that he wants to open an office in Sind so that he may be in close touch with the work when the construction proceeds. I hope in few days everything will be complete and tenders will be invited. As far as my part in the affair is concerned, the honorable member Mr. Sidhwa is himself aware that I have spared no pains to myself. That is what I could do. Several things do happen which cause delay. It is natural.
Now, leaving these things there, I think the best thing for me is to prove the positive rather than do to indulge in the negative and the positive I am giving chapter by chapter. I am showing the work done by this Ministry. Comparisons are always invidious, and I don’t want to enter into any comparison.
I admit that we have not been able to do as much as we were anxious to do and the main reason has been that there is, if I may be excused to say so, unhealthy opposition. I welcome healthy opposition, because it stimulates and the pleasure would be lost from politics if there were no opposition. But unhealthy opposition does create impediments in the progress of work which one would certainly not cherish.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I rise on a point of information. I want to know from the Honorable Minister to give us the points where he has been obstructed in doing good work.
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Sir, I choose to pass on
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: If the Honorable Minister did not want to yield, he should not have stopped.
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Sir, I don’t care for the interruptions.
Now I submit that all will agree with me that for doing more rapid and progressive work it is very necessary that there should be absolute and assured majority to the Cabinet; otherwise if the Cabinet goes on answering the Propaganda that is carried on against the Ministry, wasting its time in answering this propaganda, certainly some of its energies get wasted. But I still claim that, in spite of this handicap and in spite of the budget that was already before us- we could not alter it very much,-this Cabinet has done the work which no other Ministry under the circumstances in which we were placed, could have done.
Now, Sir, I will mention 6 points. First of all I come to the national outlook, which is point No 1. I want to show what we have done, and that the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro cannot put forth any claim saying that we have not done anything.
The first point is abolition of nominations in the Municipalities and Local Boards. Now we have got abolition of nomination in the Sanitary Committees as well.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH : Don’t take credit for that.
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Sir, I am prepared to give him credit in so far that these documents were prepared in the days of the previous Government and that these were the intentions of the Previous Government. I don’t deny that. But the fact remains that even the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro, on the floor of this House, resisted this wholesome measure. They were not prepared for giving effect to abolish the nominations immediately. ( Hear! Hear!) Sir, conceiving of an intention is one thing, but the execution thereof is quite another thing. I think it is not the intention that is to be taken into account. I have a dozen of intentions, but as long I do not execute them, they are of no good to the country.
KHAN BAHADUR A.K. GABOL: That is breach of contract. (Laugher).
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Sir, we abolish Special Magistrates and Honorary Magistrates.
As far as the release of political prisoners is concerned there was one Mr. Hansraj Wireless, a political prisoner. On this point I can safely make a statement without the risk of being contradicted that the previous Ministry had definitely refused to release him. We had the courage, in spite of his previous history, to release him; not only to release him but to refrain him but to retain in Sind. He is now in Sind doing useful work.
Mr. R. K. SIDHWA : What about Fateh Raj?
The Honorable Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Sir, I have no objection if we are reduced to this position, i.e., that we have only executed their intentions. I will be satisfied. I at once make a statement that this was the intention of the whole world including the ex-Ministry, but we have executed it. For the execution we are entitled to due credit.
Now I come to Moulvi Ubedullah. Whatever credit may go to the previous Ministry, this happy incident took place in our days.
Then, Sir, we have restored fortified pensions,- I mean pensions which had been fortified on political considerations and we have restored confiscated properties.
Sir, the most important thing we have done is that we have actually made a start and a very definite start in the direction of separating the executive from the judiciary. The humble start is there. We have appointed 5 special Magistrates. But I might inform the Honorable House that our scheme is very definite to have as much of separation of executive from the judiciary as possible. In fact it is only the preparation of the scheme that has retarded our passing orders but we have made up our minds that at least Resident Magistrates’ appointments should be separated from the executive and transferred to the judiciary.
Then, Sir, we have given every possible means of encouragement to Swadeshi and have also issued orders regarding khaddar and also about depressed classes that they should not be restrained from fetching water. So in this national outlook we have not lagged behind any other Ministry.
Sir, coming to the constructive side, in the Province of Sind the whole populace, the masses, depend on agriculture. As I just now indicated in this House, we have very keenly taken to the expansion of cultivation, and I might inform the Honorable House that in this Rabi season there will be cultivation of nearly 150000 acres more than that of previous Rabi. Sir, for the future Kharif, we are actually having, as already mentioned, in the Rohri Division and Sukkur Division, better cultivation, 30,000 acres more, in the Jacobabad District at least 50,000 acres, in the Karachi Division also at least 50,000 acres. This increase of 1,50,000 acres of more cultivation of paddy means an addition to the the wealth of the Province, which cannot possibly be ignored.
Then, Sir, coming to the next branch of nation-buliding departments, the Public Health Department, let us see what has been done by this Ministry. Shortly after I assume charge, in the short session that was held, I moved for a token grant for two travelling dispensaries and 8 Government aided dispensaries. The point was then made by the Honorable….
Dr. HEMANDAS R. WADHWANI: It was done by me.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: Yes, that idea was conceived by the previous Ministry.
Dr. HEMANDAS R. WADHWANI: I had ordered.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Provision had made. The Honorable Minister might be. . . . .
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: If the provision had been made, there would have been no occasion for a taken grant. I am prepared to give credit. I make no comparisons. I am only saying that you might conceive so many things, but we come as persons to execute your intentions. You may take that view , but I am only concerned with the fact that we have performed what you had intended.
Now honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro said that the District Local Boards have not taken advantage of that offer of Government. I may inform him that all other District Local Boards have taken advantage and there has been at least 3 more District Local Boards who want to take advantage of this spare grant, which was granted for Larkana District. Not only that, but I have actually addressed the District Local Boards to select 8 more dispensaries in addition to the 8 which are already there.
Now, Sir, in the Health Department, I shall first deal with the Civil Hospital at Karachi. In Civil Hospital at Karachi. I ordered the removal of all poor women patient to the European wards on the First Floor.
Dr. HEMANDAS R. WADHWANI: That was my move.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: I say there was nothing of the sort. I am very definite, but I do not want to say all these things. In any case that is a different matter. Yes, it was his move, but the order was mine. Let him be content with that. His intention and my execution. In all these matters let him take credit for intentions. I am prepared to concede that.
Sir, in the Civil Hospital, Karachi, I took steps to see that the necessary alterations were made in the buildings, not by official correspondence which would have taken some years, but by personally calling the Executive Engineers and seeing to it personally and supervising everything. I paid visits to the Civil Hospital frequently, and I found the lady patients were inconvenienced. I immediately ordered the appointment of one Lady Doctor; she took charge, and the result has been that instead of 30 women patients who were attending the Civil Hospital formerly, now the attendance has mounted up to 300 a day. I have increased the other in-door patient’s beds also. I have visited the Lady Dufferin Hospital, and I have found there also the outdoor patients were inconvenienced. I immediately took action and communicated with them. An additional compounder was appointed and some other arrangements were made. So this is as far the Civil Hospital is concerned.
Sir, I went on tour. This is another item that I notice because I saw that in door patient were put up in Katcha Landhies, and dust was falling down on the poor patients. I immediately came here and ordered two new buildings to be rented for the accommodation of the indoor patients, and I am coming before the House next month for a grant for building a dispensary at Dadu- a new building.
An Honorable Member: Hospital?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: I am also coming before the House for the appointment of at least 5 Sub Assistant Surgeon to enable the Civil Surgeons in charge of these Hospitals to perform operations, for they have not got the facilities at present which they ought to have not got the facilities at for the appointment of three lady doctors in the Civil Hospitals, in every place where they have not a separate women dispensary. In my tour, Sir, I went and inspected the Mental Hospital at Gidu Bandar and found the condition indescribable.
He was a blot on the Administration. Sir, I am coming before the House again for handsome grant for building a good building for the accommodation of the unfortunate beings belonging to respectable families who get insane. Not only that, but I am providing a sufficient amount for the rendering all the grounds inside the compound of Gidu Bandar Mental Hospital into beautiful gardens.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Your intention may be executed by others.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: Then also I promise that honorable member shall not be told by me that I had those intentions; I will have the courtesy not to say that.
Then, Sir, further, I issued orders exempting the poor patients from any patients from any payment in the case of out-door treatment. All those who got an income less than Rs. 2000 a year are exempted from payment. Not only does the order apply to Government hospitals and dispensaries, but, also to Government aided dispensaries. In the case of indoor patients also, those whose income is less than Rs. 40 per month, and their departments have to be treated free. In fact my information is that the number of patients that are now being treated in the Provision of Sind in the Government Hospital and Government dispensaries is double that treated in the previous year.
Sir, the honorable members will also remember that immediately after I took charge of office, I took interest in developing the spas in Sind. There is one of those spas at Laki. I got the waters chemically analyzed, and the chemical analysis has given definite indication that the water contains minerals which will cure almost all complaints due to Uric Acid; immediately a dispensary was started at Laki and it is functioning there.
Than, Sir, coming to the Health Officer’s appointments, this House itself has passed the measure for the appointments of Health Officers of District Local Boards compulsorily. I have further important measures, which I shall be describing later in 15 or 20 days. Therefore I am only mentioning the broad points.
For quinine also we are giving more grant than was given in previous years. Not only that, but we have appealed and persuaded all District Local Boards to give more Money for the purchase of quinine, and the District Local Boards have actually intimated that they have ear-marked certain amounts for the purchase of quinine, and that special medical officers have been appointed.
Then the next item of nation-building departments is communications. Last year only assume of Rs.3.5 Lakhs was spent on communications, i.e., on roads. This year more than Rs. 10 lakhs will have been spent before the end of March. And the schemes are ready for execution of works costing more than Rs. 15 lakhs next year.
Then as regards railways, although some these schemes must have started several years ago, the final orders have now been passed as immediate urgency was pressed on the attention of the Railway Board for having the two lines, one at Khadro-NawabShah and the other at Larkana-Shahdakot.
Then, Sir, in the branch of electricity. As soon as I assumed office, some correspondences came to me where I found that they were pending for several months and sometimes years. I immediately passed orders that all those correspondence must receive very prompt attention, and as many as 8 fresh licenses have been given out in my time. And I am proceeding along further. Also for the development of Tando Mastikhan power as well an Oderolal power, I have taken steps, but they have not yet reached the final stages.
Then as regards industries, in a few months, after assuming office, we wrote to the Government of India for a geological survey of certain tracts in Sind, and we expect that next year the Government of India party will come to Sind for the purpose. We have also recently given a prospecting license to the Burmah Oil Co. By charging them a sum of nearly Rs 3, 34000 for prospecting for two years.
Then, Sir, a point was made with regard to retrenchment A grievance was made that nothing has been done in direction of retrenchment, that the Government have either not passed orders or they have done nothing to pass any orders on the Report of the Re-organization Committee. I might inform the House that this Government has taken every serious has taken every serious notice of the Re-organization Committee Report and has been considering it Para. The Government have passed orders which have already resulted in a saving.- most of the saving will be appreciable in the next year- of nearly Rs. 3 lakhs.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Under what head?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: I will tell you. Have patience. Out of those Rs. 3 lakhs nearly Rs. 59000 will be on account of retrenchment in the Police Department establishment. I have also abolished one dispensary in the Sukkur Barrage Town. Then, Sir, there have been cuts in the tent age allowance, Sind allowance, compensatory allowance, conveyance allowance, local allowance and ordinary travelling allowance. So far as special pays are concerned……
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Have you accepted those recommendations?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: Yes not wholly, but we have gone as far as we could go. The retrenchment in the Revenue Officer’s office comes to Rs. 11000. All the suggestions that were made about special pay in the Medical Department were given effect to long ago. There was also a saving of Rs. 16700 on this head.
Then, Sir, as regards the Public Works Department, these figures don’t include any saving. As far as the Public Works Department is concerned, I might inform the House that the Engineer for Roads, who is a superintending Engineer, has been lent to us by Bombay. We have written to them to take him back, so that we may have a saving on this item. The Bombay Government have recently written back to us that they are very seriously considering the matter, and that it is only a question of an opportunity occurring when he would be absorbed by them. As soon as an opportunity occurs, he will be sent back to Bombay. We have also come to the conclusion that one irrigational circle should be done away with. That is a special responsibility of His Excellency the Governor. The final orders are to be passed by His Excellency the Governor, but I have no doubts that he will accept the advice of his Ministers.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Are they prepared to give him any advice?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: Advice has already been given.
As far as Divisions are concerned, it has been decided finally to abolish one Division for the present. With regard to sub-divisions, immediately I took over, I abolished 2sub-division and 2 more are abolished and the scheme is being considered as to how far further retrenchment can be effected. There is only one difficulty, however. I have to admit that the cannals and channels are not still in their perfect order. We have still got the silt trouble. There are a number of complaints as regards particular water courses or particular minors. Therefore it will not do to have revolutionary schemes carried out in the Public Works Department. My would certainly be easier –I mean the task of anybody in my place a year or two hence –but still I assure the House that we been carrying out the retrenchment to the maximum limit to which we could go.
MR. M. H. GAZDAR : That means zero!
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI As re –regards maintenance and repairs, I might inform the House that the Barrage started in the year 1933 -34. But in the 1934-35 there was an expenditure of Rs. 41.1/4 lakhs on the establishment in the public Works Department. It is cut down to Rs. 39 lakhs . As far as maintenance and repairs are concerned, the expenditure in 1934-35 was Rs. 53.68 lakhs. Now it is less than Rs. 40 lakhs. I was glad when I read the Reorganization Committee Report. They themselves say that they are satisfied with this sort of retrenchment . The figures were given at a late meeting by the Chief Engineer and the Committee says “We have reason to be satisfied.”
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : Why don’t you read further?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: I have read the whole of it But in future some more retrenchment is to be carried out, that is their view. I entirely agree with it. There would have been greater retrenchment, Sir. But this year there was the mishap of the Sind Canal. That canal had to be closed and certain regulators had to be constructed. That cost Rs. 2.5 lakhs, which goes from the maintenance. I may also inform the House that maintenance and repairs include construction of new bunds and repairs to bunds. The construction of certain bunds has been found to be very necessary.
Then, Sir, in the Revenue Department it has been decided although orders on the whole Reorganization Committee Report have not yet been passed, to remove the appointment of Head Clerks from the Mukhtiarkar’s cadre, and some more steps for retrenchment are in progress. All that I am saying to the House is that this Cabinet has not been sitting quiet. They have been exploring all avenues for economy. I might also inform the House that a few days ago I stated that only in the case of gardens I have passed orders which will result in a saving of Rs 33000 a year. Some clerks have also been removed from the Canal Assistants. In various spheres, wherever it is possible to make any economy, it is being affected.
Then ,Sir, so far as rasai is concerned, I have gathered information. There can be no two honest opinions that in this cold season there is very substantial decrease in rasai.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : Has it disappeared?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: I have never said that it has disappeared. It will take some time to disappear altogether. Even from Larkana, a place which is very vocal, I read it in a paper like Hindu that the residents of Larkana are definitely saying that at the camps of the Chief Engineer and the Revenue Commissioner there was absolutely no rasai. . . . . .
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : The chief Engineer never took rasai But what about the Superintending and Executive Engineer?
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: The Executive Engineers nowadays travel in cars and come back to their bungalows. I can assure the House that there has been a change of mentality. It will certainly take time to root out corruption which is existing from Adam’s day. This Government passed very definite order that honesty should be taken to be the best factor for promotion, not only honesty on their part their capacity to put down corruption in their own charge.
A lot of work has been done towards the rural reconstruction. District Sudan Committees have been formed. In every village, within those limits, about 50 Village Committees have also been formed.
Coming to the educational sphere, 5 night schools for adults have been started in each of the districts of Dadu, Larkana, Upper Sind, Nawabshah and Sukkur.
Coming now to the Forest Department, there were serious complaints about Chher. I may inform the House that definite orders have been passed for the stoppage of Chher. Orders have also been passed for giving free gazing or grazing at very concessional rates to the maldars of the hilly tract when they come down to Sind for want of rain.
KHAN BAHADUR A.K. GABOL: You refuse to give any concession in Karachi taluka.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: No interruption, The honorable Minister may proceed.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: In that Department also further order, according to the suggestions made by the Rasai Committee, are under consideration. Orders in most matters have been passed, and the remaining orders will be passed soon.
Sir, I have not touched some of the points that have been referred to by the honorable members as they will be dealt with by the Honorable the Chief Minister. All that have to say is this. I would invite the attention of the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro to the Speech that he made while he was defending the previous Cabinet form the no-confidence motion.
SIR GHULAM HIDAYATULLAH: There was no no–confidence motion, otherwise you would never have found your place there.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: He had not mentioned even one-forth of the items that have been mentioned by me in the sphere of education and nation-building departments. After all, it does take time to do all these things.
So far as legislation is concerned, several Bills have been brought forward and the remaining Bills have been brought forward and the remaining Bills are ready which will be investigated by the party and then brought before the House. The Bill for the Primary Education will be brought up immediately and so also for the registration of Vaids and Hakims. With the co-operation coming from the honorable members, much more progress can be made in the nation-building departments and in all departments of the Province, and I feel no doubt about that.
Now, Sir, analyzing all that the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro told us, it boils down to this Ministry is responsible for these assessment proposals and has made two more appointments and has not respected the wishes of their party.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: I said many more things.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NICHALDAS C. VAZRANI: The remaining thing that he said was that we had done no work. He also made a reference to the Rasai Committee Report. The Honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro knows very well that several orders have actually passed and that I brought the report in the full Committee, but the discussion took place only over one item whether the Chief Engineer should take three peons or four peons on tour. Nearly half an hour was wasted on that item alone, and then it was the option of the Government are considering passing final orders and issuing a statement showing the recommendations of the Committee and the orders. The Government is considering passing final orders passed by the Government. That Press Note can certainly be discussed and any further resolution passed for the guidance of the Ministry.
In conclusion I say that there is absolutely no ground made out for the support of this no –confidence motion, and feel confident that this Honorable House will reject it with and overwhelming majority.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Honorable, Sir, whenever such an important motion or resolution is brought before the House there are three issues which every honorable member should bear in mind.
The first issue to be considered by every thinking person is: If this motion is carried, what will happen next, Certainly, it is a very reasonable question to be asked from everybody as to what will happen after this motion is carried.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Deluge!
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: The second issue is, -and it is always a recognized principle, -that before we condemn anybody, we should try to look into the mirror ourselves as to how far we are responsible for the actions for which is very necessary to look him.
The third issue is whether the action of throwing out the Ministry can be avoided and, if it can be avoided, how that can be done.
These are the three issue which every sane person must bear in mind when such a motion is brought before the House.
Sir, the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro yesterday expressed a surprise as to why I am so keenly supporting the present Ministry, and he gave reasons, which were, of course, imaginary and probable, that in my opinion Sir Ghulam Hussain’s Ministry was communal and this Ministry was non-communal. Sir, I assure my friend Khan Bahadur KHuhro and his honorable House that neither the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain is in my picture nor is The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH in my picture : in my picture and vision I have got somebody very much higher and far above them, One who has designed and planned to send me to this House to do my duty towards this Province. I am not keeping any person or any Ministry in my picture, except the One Whom I adore.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: That is saintly vision.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I am not, Sir, by temperament a Ministry breaker or a Ministry maker. During my 35 years of public service I have not once in my life become either a king maker or a king-dethroner. Therefore, Sir, when Ministers take seats on the other side, -whether he is the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain or The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH –my job is not to dethrone them but make them for the good of the Province. That is my job and I want to make this very clear. I am quite certain that my honorable friend Khan Bahadur Khuhro and the Honorable Minister knows very well that I support them not because I am their admirer or their friend, but because they are Ministers and by some decree of Providence they are made to sit there, it is my duty to see that they work healthily for the good of the Province. Sir, I am not trying to enter into complications of any kind or intrigues of any kind. My duty is very plain. As a simple –minded person, as a plain, simple and practical man, my duty is first to think what is coming next after this Ministry is thrown out of after this no –confidence motion is passed. That was exactly the reason in my mind when Sir Ghulam Hussain was attacked a few months bore, and that was exactly the reason why I voted against the One Rupee cut motion because I did not like leaping into the Dark and I don’t like to leap in the dark to-day. I am a plain business man to-day. If somebody comes and shows me a false rupee, I don’t want to lose a half anna which is my hands for that rupee. If I am confident that there is rupee before me and that rupee I can earn honestly without intrigue and without any kind of complication, I am prepared to earn that rupee. Unless I see very clearly that rupee which I can earn honestly, I am not going to leave half an anna in my hand. This is a plain business policy. It is a very common and simple policy.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : You are not a speculator.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: NO, I am not a speculator.
If I know to-day that the whole Assembly is prepared without any idea of communalism, without any idea of parties, sections and sub-sections, e.g. Mir’s Party, Sayed Party, Baluch Party, Hindu Party, Congress Party, Muslim League Party and other parties.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: What party do you belong to?
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Without any such idea if they all . . . . .
Mr. R. K. SIDHWA: Political parties are essential.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: IF without thinking of the parties, the whole Assembly united, for the good of the Province of Sind, are prepared to elect any other three Ministers, I think I am quite certain my honorable friend Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh and other Ministers will be prepared to vacate their seats, and I will be prepared to support them in that instance.
Now, Sir, let us see what happened in the past when the two Advisers were sent away, when this Assembly came into existence, when Sir Ghulam Hussain was offered Chief Minister ship and when my honorable friend Mir Bandeh Ali Khan and Mukhi Gobindram were the Ministers ; let us see what were their lives.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: They were merry.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I don’t think they were merry. I know very well.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: All the three were members of Karachi Club.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Sir, they went to the Karachi Club to get out of their sorrows. All throughout their period, there were constant pulls, constant pushes not fulfilled, and for all sorts of things for which they were not able to carry out. That was their position. My honorable friends will agree with me here. I have got no doubt in my mind about that.
Then, Sir, when they were thrown out for certain reasons, we expected the other Ministers to take up their places and do something better. Notwithstanding what the Honorable Public Works Department Minister said and I agree they have done something, I have absolutely no illusion in my mind and I know for certain that the sum total falls for short of the estimate which I had made up in my mind. In my mind there are greater things to be done for the common good of the Province of Sind, not here and there some reform. The general masses are yet burdened with many things. I would certainly wish to have so many things done for the relief of masses in Sind.
Sir, honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro yesterday was mourning because the other provinces have made certain progress. I will come to that a little later. But if Khan Bahadur Khuhro and his colleagues and friends really desire to have similar progress here as in the provinces where Congress Ministers are working to-day, may I tell him that we can do that within one week? If he has got that idea, if he has made that ideal, if he really wishes, if he really desires and if he really intends to see Sind making progress, it is in his own hands and it is in our hands.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: How?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I hope you will come out with suggestions.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: At least I will follow him if I find it good.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Sir, as the Honorable Mr. Nichaldas said, let the Ministers, whoever they are, feel that their Ministry is stable, that they are unhampered and that demands on them are not such which they cannot fulfill. If they are assured of the co-operation, if they are assured that they will be fully helped and supported, I am quite certain of this progress being made.
Now, Sir, as I said in the beginning, my second issue is this: Let us look ourselves into the mirror and see for ourselves, before we condemn others, as to what we have done to help them and to co-operate with them. Let us try to understand that. I have been a daily visitor to the Secretariat, perhaps with the exception of Sundays.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR : Your are the biggest nuisance!
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Sir, I can assure the Honorable House that I have never gone to Minister for a personal demand or in connection with personal gain. I have gone to the Ministers for my constituents who have elected me to relieve them of the burden and get their grievance redressed.
Mr. R. K. SIDHWA: I have had sad experience.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Sir, every day I found that the time of the Ministers had been taken up for objects which are petty, which are small, and which sometimes can safely be referred to the Commissioner or Collectors or even to their Head Clerks. Day after day I have come out of the Secretariat with real regret and sorrow, seeing that the Ministers are made to work on something which is of very much smaller or a lower type. They are not given time to think of bigger problems for the improvements of so many things. They are not given time to make schemes. They are not given time to Draft Bills.
Sir, I am not here offering an apology for the Ministers. I am not here advocating their cause. But, Sir, truth must be said and the facts must be faced.
Sir, coming down the main crime this Ministry is charged with is Assessment.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: On a point of information: May I know if the honorable member is supporting or opposing the Ministry?
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: The honorable member Khan Bahadur Gabol is not so simple-minded as all that, Sir. Then, Sir, within four days after this Ministry came into existence, naturally, they thought very clearly that without proper finances no improvement in the Province could be made. After all no improvement can also be made when we have not got finances, -rupees, annas and pies. They knew well that the burden of our debt and the burden of interest were very great. Four ot 8 days after they took charge, they sent two representatives, important officers of our province, to Dehli to request the Government of India as to what could be done for relieving us of the burden of such heavy debt and heavy interest. Sir, that was the right step to take. I cannot say and I do not know what happened at Dehli. My honorable friend Khan Bahadur Khuhro yesterday suggested that the reply was in the negative, that the Government of India gave a very disappointing answer and the result was zero. Sir, if it is so not the fault of the Ministers, but it is the fault of this Assembly. Sir, in this House, I know there are, some influential persons who have influence with the Government of India. In this House there are persons who are deep thinkers. But they have taken no steps.
They have not taken any measures, any action . . . . . . . .
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: How can they? It is for the Government to take action.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: They have taken no action by which this Assembly as a whole might put the case before the Government of India and tell them very clearly that we are groaning under the burden of heavy debts and heavy interests. The Ministers have done their best.
Mr. GHANSHYAM JETHANAND: We said “Repudiate.”
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: No Interruption, please.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I shall finish soon, Sir within time.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: You were being interrupted.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Sir, it is this factor which practically suggested itself to the Honorable Minister that we should show to the Government of India that we were doing our best with all bona fides to get as much as we could reasonably do from the Province as income. Then we would be able to convince the Government of India later on to get relief from our debts.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: On a point of information, Sir. This Assembly was not aware that two officers were sent to Dehli on behalf of the Government of Sind for financial adjustments or anything of that nature. Was he taken into confidence?
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: It was stated on the floor of the House by the Honorable the Chief Minister.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The honorable member should listen to the information.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: It was but natural that the Honorable Ministers should think in that way, that we should do our best before we could appeal or argue with the Government of India. Now, Sir, therefore the scheme of increasing assessment was already there. In the days of the former Ministers the revision of assessment was thought of. Objections had been invited. The Assembly had given their views. It was postponed for about 12 months for further reconsideration. That time had arrived and naturally the new Ministers took up the thread, but they went further. They modified the suggestions of the Settlement Officers. They did not accept in both cases –in the revised assessment suggested by the Settlement Officers, and also in the regrouping. They modified their views and they brought new schemes of sliding scale. What was the Scheme, Sir, of the sliding scale? It was that until prices reached a particular level, the assessment would not be increased. The fact is there that even upto now the prices have not reached that level and therefore this assessment will not automatically come into existence.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: What about the rest of all the groupings?
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I am just coming to that. So far they stand absolutely proved. The proof is there. They have proved that they were in the right and that the burden would not be so heavy on the agriculturists, because the prices have not reached that level. The second point is regrouping.
Now, in the regrouping I have read volumes and files on the subject. For the last 10 years various suggestions of regrouping had been made. Mr. Green made some suggestions; Mr. Baker made some suggestions, Different Committees made different suggestions. All these
had as their object the raising of the villages from the 3rd class to 1st class, because they were getting a perennial supply of water. Instead of taking up that suggestion, the Honorable Minister modified the scheme, that the 3rd class should be raised to the 2nd, the 2nd to the 1st. Groupings were modified in certain sections and not all throughout. Then what happened? The Honorable Ministers invited objections. The Assembly has to be consulted. We do not know what will be the result. As such, final orders have not been passed. We have not seen the objections ourselves. The Assembly has not considered the proposals. I quite agree with my honorable friend Mr. Nihchaldas that to bring a vote of no–confidence on that plank as the main point, is not only premature but unjustified.
Now, Sir, I am coming to the other points, which the honorable member Khan Bahadur KHuhro has suggested. He said that such an important subject, if it was left in the hands of Mr. Neville Chamberlain in the Parliament, would have been brought in the Parliament. I think the Khan Bahadur is a Student of Parliamentary debates, I have also some knowledge of it. At no time in my life in any constitution in any place in the world have I seen land-tax, agriculture tax, being discussed.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: Question.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I make myself bold to say what I am saying. I can point to the Government of New Zealand where there is only one tax, and one tax only, viz., of Land Revenue.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: I know it is in Australia?
An Honorable Member: Who told you that? (Laughter)
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The honorable member’s time is getting up.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I shall finish my speech soon. Then, Sir, we have been given a list of other omissions. I have already stated that I am aware of various questions, viz., and relief to tenants, relief from the money lenders to those who are groaning under hardships of money lenders, relief to the agriculturists in various ways, the method of agriculture, education in agriculture, marketing facilities and so on. All these reforms have not been brought into existence. Sir, there are several Bills which are Bills would be taken up rapidly, and that our friends would follow the progress which is being made in other provinces. But, Sir, let us see the other omissions also. The Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas has explained what has been done with regards to the Re-organization Committee Report. There is no doubt that the Government are doing best to carry out retrenchment. Sir , the Educational Committee’s Report has been given in their hands only a few weeks ago. The Report has also been given to them a few weeks ago. The Report of the Prohibition Committee, which is one of the main reforms which I hope to see carried out before I pass away form this Assembly has been given to them only a few days ago.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: I shall see that it is carried out within 12 months. (Laugher)
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Thank you, Sir. The Report of the Frontier Regulation Committee has not yet seen the light of the day and I do not know when It will come up.
Then, Sir, about the criminal tribes and sections 107, 108 ad 109 of the Criminal Procedure Code, already the Bills are there on the desk of the Ministers.
I will now come to the third question. I have already said, Sir, that if I look into my own mirror before I condemn the Ministers, I come to the conclusion that I have myself not co-operated with them. I have not helped them as I should have I have allowed their time to be wasted. But the remedy is there. Instead of bringing this motion of no –confidence, I ask, is there no other remedy? The remedy is very simple. I again repeat that if the whole House is united and if we are prepared to give up the pulling down and pushing up ambitions, we 35 or 40 or more members, if we can get ourselves united, sit down in a prayerful mood, act in a prayerful mood (Laughter). Please laugh as much as you can but you will come to this conclusion some day. If we can dedicate ourselves to the Province of Sind, take up all the Bills and Resolutions, take up all the schemes, study what has happened in other Provinces, bring all the files and books together, sit down quietly in a room. . . . . .
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: The Karachi Club will be all right for that, ( Laughter)
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Please do not interrupt me. If we sit down , if we are not dragged by Muslim or Hindu idea, if we can give up the idea of Muslim or Hindu or what Mr. Shamdas Gidwani says or what “Alwahid” says, if we can drop all those consideration and if we can say to the Ministers “ We have selected these Bills, we have selected these resolutions, bring them in the Assembly” and if we take a vow to speak nothing on the first and second and third reading of a bill, if we can then all pass with your ayes have it –Ayes have it –very soon. . . .
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOPATKAR: Why not pass it by circulation? (Laughter)
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Don’t Laugh. Allow me, Sir, to go on. I am suggesting a scheme Sir. If we have decided outside to unite and co-operate and to carry out the measures fully, there will be no need of any kind of further speech in this Assembly. Sir, 30 or 40 Bill can be carried within 10 days.
And then, Sir, If we are honestly co-operate to increase the finance of this Province, If we are united, we can force the Ministers; they will have no other way; they will be forced to accept our schemes.
AN HONORABLE MEMBER: Why not 60 members instead of 30 or 40?
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Thank you for suggesting the number. Excluding THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER, it is 59. If we are all united, it can be done. This is very simple and plain thing. It only requires a decision. It only requires a dedication. It only requires a decision. It only requires a prayerful mood and the reforms can be soon carried out. But Sir I again repeat : “ Break this Ministry if you like” and we are in a vicious circle. The Opposition wants to break the Ministry, and the Ministry wants to be there. If one Ministry is broken, another Ministry will come. Then again efforts will be made to break that Ministry. Thus the vicious circle will go on. These Ministers have to think constantly whether somebody has gone off from their party, or whether someone has come in.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Why should they, is another matter. But that is fact. On the other side there is the constant pull to see that their numbers increase so that the Ministry might break as early as possible. If one Ministry breaks, another will take its place. Then again attempts will be made to break that Ministry. There will thus be no progress. There will be a vote of no –confidence immediately another Ministry comes in. Again the same attacks will be made and the same shortcomings will be pointed out ; and Sind will remain as it is. The very simple and plain thing is, as I have suggested, let us leave aside condemnation. Let us stand united to work. Let us be united. Let us be dedicated. And I am certain in my mind that whether it is this Ministry or any other Ministry, it can be forced to accept our decisions and Sind will be prosperous. If this condemnation goes on and if this vicious circle goes on . . . .
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Are you going to bless evil?
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: I am not blessing evil. There is no time : two solid years have gone by. There are only 3 years more. I belong not to the city of Karachi where there are several amenities of life, but I belong to the district. I know what people are suffering. I know what people are going through. It is not merely the rasai and corruption which are really heavy burdens on them, but there are many other things. Their lot should be bettered. Sir, it is a matter of sorrow, it is a matter of regret, that we have wasted two solid years in this wrangling and vicious circle. I would again, in the end, repeat, whether my friends laugh at me or scorn at me : let us put ourselves in a prayerful mood, in a mood of dedication, and serve God and serve the Province of Sind. (Hear. Hear)
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: As it is now nearly 4-30, the House will rise for tea till 5’oclock.
(The Honorable the Deputy Speaker occupied the Chair.)
KHAN BAHADUR HAJI GHULAM NABI SHAH: (In Sindhi) Sir, I intend to express my humble opinion on this most important matter. The manner in which honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed expressed himself was an excellent one. I do admit that I appreciated his ideas very much, but at the same time I was wonder struck to see him expressing his treason with the ex-chief Minister. He also expressed in the open House that he has got one thousand and one complaints against the present Chief Minister. I was feeling ashamed of such a declaration of his before the elected member of this Honorable House.
THE HONORABLE THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) The Honorable member should address the Chair instead of galleries as he is doing present.
KHAN BAHADUR HAJI GHULAM NABI SHAH: (In Sindhi) The Honorable member has proposed this no –confidence motion without thinking the pros and cons of the matter. I wish to bring out the most important points, which I want to deal with. Honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed, while expressing his opinions has shown that the Honorable Ministers are experts at least in one thing, -in accepting the invitations to the Honorable Ministers originated from Sann, the native place of honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed?
I was in the Bombay Legislative Council with the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro; we remained there for full 14 years and I am definite there was mutual love and respect between ourselves. If honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed is true to his expression of opinion that he intends to throw new light in the country, I will be the first man to extend my help to him. But when he is I will be the first man to extend my help to him. But when he is firm on his dictum that the downfall of the Ministry should be brought about, I will advise him to remember what honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain said, that is very difficult to carry on Government smoothly in that way. I find that honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed is taking notes of what I say, and I think he will reply to all these in the end, but I am certain that he will never give a reply to the points. Honorable member had written letters to me against the ex-Chief Minister. I would have produced the same, but I don’t believe in preserving such letter.
Now I come to the question of assessment. This is the most important question which needs through consideration. This Assembly is not prepared to bear the burden. The Honorable the Chief Minister and his colleagues must think of Public opinion : whether the public is happy about the proposal or not. I am very sorry that the Honorable the Chief Minister has not been successful in changing the mentality of the heads of officials, and no effect of his policy has yet been produced on them. I would advise the honorable member Mr. G. M Sayed to remember the need of this Province, which is that we should have a stable Ministry, that we should all work together. It does not look beneficial for the country to drive out a Ministry after every 8 months. Honorable member Shiakh Abdul Majid has also worked with me in the Bombay Legislatve Council.
When honorable member Mr. Gazdar met me at Mirpurkhas, he told me about the rifg in the Muslim League Party. It was only on his advise that I had become a member of the Muslim League. I felt grieved when I heard about this rift, I would never have become a member of the Muslim League Party, but I love democratic Government. I love discipline. We find discipline in the Congress Party, and that is why they are so liberal, and that is why they want to remain neutral. What can a neutral party do? They should work sincerely. They must vote for the party which is in their view right. I remained neutral at the time of the downfall of the Ministry of Sir Ghulam Hussain. You will question such behavior of mine. Well, Iw as definite that the Ministry of Sir Ghulam Hussain would continue. If I had found the Government responsible, I would have voted for Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh. My view is that we should not act hypocrites. We should open our hearts to each other that the shadows of the misunderstanding may be removed. The majority of members sit silent like congress brethren. I like the advice of honorable member MR. Jamshed very much. He says “ Always bring about compromises so that the fraternal ties may get strengthened.” It is only then that an awakening can be brought about in a country. I would advice honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed to copy Mahatma Gandhi. The Skeleton declares that he will end his life by observing a fast unto death if his sincere object is not achieved. I would suggest an excellent solution for the betterment of this country to honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed. He must observe a fast unto death and if he dies, peace will prevail throughout the country. (Laughter). I would appeal to honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed to watch the various parties in this declared their neutrality ; on the other hand our Hindu brethren have not yet made up their minds. I take this opportunity to appeal to the Honorable the minister to clear their position. They are responsible to the Public and they must explain what good they have done for the betterment of this country. I would request honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed to copy the example of our Quaid-e-Azam Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah in the the Central Legislative Assembly. It is for the betterment of Muslims of Sind. What does our political leader do there? He supports the Congress is right, while he helps is our duty to give sufficient time and opportunity to the Ministers ; if we find that they are failures, then the right steps to be taken will be to oppose them. I am not prepared to criticize the Minister at this stage as honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro and Mr. Sayed have done. I am not I favor of showering abuses as the honorable members of the Opposition do.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: (In Sindhi) When have these abuses been used?
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable member will proceed.
KHAN BAHADUR HAJI GHULAM NABI SHAH: (In Sindhi) I will request honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro to remember the day when he had come to MirpurKhas along with honorable member Mr. M. H. Gazdar, Pir Ghulam Mujadad and Moulvi Hakani. They used abusive language against us, and after that , articles were printed in the “Sind Zamindar” which, I think represented the opinions of honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro. Those articles grieved me very much, and that is why I have given vent to such words. I will request the Honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed and other by declaring that he is prepared for the co-operation and that his party is founded on sound basis. He must also say that he makes no distinction between various parties. The personal attacks that the Revenue Minister is wrong, that the Public Works Department Minister is wrong, will create a rift.
There remains the question of Land Revenue assessment. Every one knows that this is not a demand of the Congress only, but It is demand of each and every one in Sind. I corroborate honorable members Mr. Jamshed and Sir Ghulam HUssain in their opinion re: grouping system or assessment policy. I will advise the Minster to be careful on this important question. They must go away with their conservative ideas. For How many days will the struggle continue? My opinion is that this Ministry should work in the Program which is prevailing in the 8 congress Province. I am prepared to help the Government if the beautiful ideas from the Province of Punjab or Bengal are taken up and Government intend to act thereon. I am definite that there will be no difficulty in this. Honorable members will be pleased with that, and the Honorable the Chief Minister will get a chance of working for the betterment of the country. The ex-chief Minister Sir Ghulam Hussain has shown a desire to co-operate. I am very happy to hear this from the oldest amongst the veterans of this House. We do good for the poor if there is co-operation. My desire from the very beginning has been that both sides should co-operate and work together . It would be better if the Honorable the Chief Minister does according to what he said in his speech yesterday, so needs of the Opposition are satisfied. I am against frequent information and destruction of Ministries.
In the end I would advise honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed oppose in a better way if at all he has love opposition. The world will laugh at us if we bring about frequent changes in the Ministries. I remember the days when honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed used to negotiate with the Congress party, the decision of which has not yet been arrived at.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I rise to support this vote of no –confidence in Honorable Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh and consequently his Ministry. Sir, Sind is a very backward Province educationally and politically. I think I will be voicing the feelings of almost all intelligent Muslims of this Province when I say that we regret the day when we asked for separation of Sind before we had politically educated our electorate. Sir, we had very great hopes that we would be able to render service to the oppressed and depressed masses of this Province, but we have not done so and by asking for separation before educating our electorates we have invited for us a very unhappy position in this Province.
Sir, By the separation we are deprived of the enlightened lead that Bombay Presidency would have given us. Within these last two years Sind has lost enormously by not being an appendage of Bombay. In these two years, measures of very far reaching character which are going to revolutionize the life of the masses in the Bombay Presidency have been passed. The masses in Sind would have derived much advantage from Bombay Government’s measure for education, prohibition, redress from debts, by now, but it will be now only a dream in Sind for many years to come for enacting such beneficial measures.
Sir, what are the reasons for this unhappy situation in Sind? Sir, the representatives of people in this House seem to owe no allegiance to their voters. Sir, most of us who are here only worship the power in whatever hands it may be. They cannot and would not go against Minsiters, whatever be their principles or want of them. Sir, I would give one example of the character of some of our Sindi friend while sitting in the Bombay council. They were always considered very reactionary, because they always voted with the Government ; and here too we find an exhibition of the same mentality. You remember, Sir, you moved for presenting an address to the Governor in 1935, in the Bombay Council that the question of land assessment in the Barrage area in Sind, which was recommended then by a committee consisting of officials and non-officials. You only requested that a Committee should be appointed which should report within about one month, and that till then those orders should be withheld and that the Government members should remain neutral at the time voting on the address and leave the decision to the non-official elected members of the House. The Government had 29 official and nominated votes in their pockets then. The Government definitely stated that they would not participate in the debate, and the Honorable the Leader of the House, Sir Robert Bell. Got up and further assured the House that the Government would adopt an attitude of neutrality ; and not only that, but it would abide by the decision of the House. Sir, what happened? We, Sind members, expressed ourselves in favor of enquiry and postponement of one month. The members from Bombay opposed that demand on the ground that Sind did not want to bear any taxation after it got the benefit of Sukkur Barrage, that they wanted to fleece Bombay. Finally we went to the division. The Honorable our present Chief Minister asked me to see how the voting went on. That is Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh asked me to ascertain how we stood with regard to the result of the poll. I found 21 votes on each side and that one honorable member sitting to-day on the Government benches did not vote. I asked honorable member to vote and told the Khan Bahadur that gentleman did not vote. He requested me to go to him and persuade the gentleman. Sir, the Honorbale Khan Bahadur Bakhsh also persuaded that gentleman, still he would not vote. Further I reminded the gentleman that these circumstances the Chair was bound to vote against us and agriculturists would suffer. The Chair would maintain the status quo and so kindly vote for us. Polling was still open but he would no vote. When asked for the reasons for that attitude, what was his reply? He said “ Government is neutral and therefore I must be neutral”. Sir, we were being rightly accused in Bombay of this reactionary attitude. We were being accused of our reactionaryism so much that there used to be talks on the floor of the House that if ever Government brought in a measure that every honorable member from Sind should be hanged outside the Council Hall, they the Sind members, would vote for that also if Government so desired ! Well, Sir, I feel and very strongly feel that the character representatives in this House has not changed. Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister’s friend, when these proposals for assessment were mooted, opposed them. The Proposals were opposed by his Congress friends in July 1938. The whole Province shouted down, and most members of Legislative Assembly signed a vote of no-confidence in the Ministry and requested His Excellency the Governor to call a session so that they might express their opinion formally and throw out the Allah Bakhsh Ministry.
(At this stage the Honorable the Speaker came and occupied the Chair).
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I was just pointing out that most of the honorable members of this House, each one of whom is representing a population of about a lakh in Sind, have no concern for the welfare of the masses; they have come here for their personal benefit. And I was pointing out that when the assessment orders were introduced by the Honorable the Chief Minister, they (some members on Government benches to-day), signed a letter expressing no-confidence in the Cabinet and requesting His Excellency the Governor to call an early session so that they might express their opinion. Sir, I find them to-day sitting on the Government benches and supporting the Ministers for that very action. Then, Sir, they joined the Muslim League party; they called public meetings all over the Province; they shouted down the Ministry ; and one of the honorable members from Sukkur, who was General Secretary of the District Muslim League, immediately after the Allah Bakhsh Cabinet came in power, called a public meeting condemning the present Cabinet in the worst terms imaginable. . . . . . .
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Do you want the original to read?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: You might read the original for the information of the House. After that , we tried to consolidate the Opposition. We found the Congress friends in the House were quite dissatisfied. We, Muslim, also thought that we should have some party discipline, some party label, so that we could show to the country what we stood for. Most of the Muslim Members of Legislative Assembly, signed the Muslim League pledge. One of the honorable members sitting behind the Ministers also signed the pledge and further he wrote a letter in his own hand to Mr. Jinnah which, if read here, will be an eye opener to this Honorable the Chief Minister. I find that other gentleman sitting on Government benches to-day supporting the Ministry having changed their opinions without the Cabinet having done anything to improve upon their position when these pledges were given and when that no-confidence motion was signed by them. That shows that these honorable members who told their voters that they were Khadim Quom (servants of people), have not come here for service of the people but they have come to grind their own axes. They have no principles and they should never be trusted. They can be trusted for one thing only, and that is that they will always support Government, whatever the policy, whatever the actions of any Government. That is their position, and therefore, I want to point out that in democratic country like England, there would be only two alternatives under these circumstances. Suppose, Sir, the Cabinet thinks is very essential for the safety, progress and happiness of the country by a general election and ask it to endorse their opinion and send representatives who would support their proposal. The other alternative is that when the House has become so docile and slavish to the Cabinet that it votes for any reactionary measure which might be brought before the House but the country is against that measure, then also the the Prime Minister of England goes to the country and asks people to show confidence in his Cabinet ; he dissolves the House and asks for the verdict of the country. If Government enjoys confidence of the people, same members are returned ; otherwise most of them are rejected. Here in Sind, sir, what happens? At least in the case of the two Honorable Muslim Ministers, the country unanimously condemns their land assessment policy. What do they do? They don’t go the electorate as they would be expected to do, because all the parties supporting them or opposing them had, disapproved of their proposals. They don’t go to the country and tell them “ Here we are. Our credit is at stake. We think our proposals are most reasonable. But your representatives think otherwise. They are in your interest. Please give us representatives who will support us.”
No. they don’t do that here in Sind. But just like a husband who does not fond a wife and is in search of bride, they go about begging support from this group, that group, the Mir Group, the Congress group so on. Ultimately when they fail, they use the only weapon which is left for governing this unhappy Province, namely, official whipping. Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister knew who the officials whipping was successfully used in the Bombay Council, and he has used it here excellently. But I must say to the credit of some Collectors that they refused to take any notice of these man oeuvres and refused to be used as the Ministers’ instruments for party purposes . In no country are permanent services used for political purposes ; otherwise it will become nepotism and create administrative chaos. If officers are allowed to canvass for Government, if officers are allowed to collect people for Ministers to address them for party purposes, if this sort of thing is allowed, then woe betide this Province ! Can you, Sir, ever imagine any parallel to this? I am prepared, but I do not want to take the names of the honorable member who have mentioned it to me or the names of Collectors or other officers of districts who have been used . . . . . .
The Honorable Khan BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, on a point of information. When the honorable member makes a serious accusation of that character against Government, I think it will be in the interests of justice and fair play that he should either give the names of those officers or the names of those members who have informed him like that, and I assure the House that I shall make full investigation in the matter.
Mr. G. M SAYED : Does the Honorable the Chief Minister want the names? I will give them.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I do not think it will be fair to mention the names, although I have got them. I think it will be unfair to disclose the names of those officers because they won’t be here to defend themselves. I challenge the Honorable the Chief Minister to appoint a Committee of Privileges of this House or a Committee of Enquiry, and I will produce evidence or put Quran on the heads of those members and say what they have to say, and I shall take their verdict. But to revert to the subject, this is the only armory which the Honorable Minister now have left them. And after what has happened, I am absolutely convinced that there is nothing left for this Province to expect from this House. We have done some propaganda amongst the electorate to educate them, only after the fail of the last Ministry. Our Congress friend have been going to villages and have been educating the electorate for a longer period. That was also from the time after or during the elections. But I am absolutely assured by my personal touch with the electorate all over Sind that if this House is dissolved to-day, you will get better representatives; you won’t get representatives who come here for their personal ambitions to be fulfilled, who don’t come here requesting that election petitions against them should be dismissed, who don’t come here for appointment of Public Prosecutors, who don’t come here for the postings of certain officers in people, or for having certain officers dismissed because they are not subservient to them, who don’t come here for the appointment of certain Engineers who will give more water to them. Some, Sir, want titles –Khan Bahadurships and Sardar Bahadurships. They tell us, how can we vote with you because by next June we can’t get titles through you ! Is that the purpose for which they came here? And, Sir, I assure you that if His Excellency the Governor is convinced that is a very reactionary House and if he is pleased to order a general election, the whole country will thank him, and I am sure you will get a better House. Under those circumstances the gentleman in the Cabinet could not find even 7 men to support their proposals for Land Revenue Assessment 8 months ago. Therefore they used official influence, oppression, corruption, etc., Now, who is going to stop corruption in this Province when such methods are followed by Government and such work is taken from officers who are corrupt and do not want to do anything properly? I say, Sir, if these are the methods adopted by the present Government, you will find no improvement in this Province for the next three years. For these reasons I strongly condemn their policy.
Sir, I had expected from the Honorable the mInister for public Works Department that he would, in his speech, give us some reply which would satisfy us. On assumption of office , the Minister asked only six months. In the debate on my one-rupee cut motion on 30th March last, which I moved on account of want of policy of the present Cabinet, I said “They are incompetent duds; they have no policy, no principle, and will do nothing for the Province”. The Honorable the Chief Minister then got up and assured this House that he would follow the program of Congress in a modified form, that he would follow the Program of Congress in a modified form, that he will do things in the interest of the Country, that he will follow the program of the Sind United Party literally : Give me six months.” On these assurances, Sir , I withdrew my cut.
Sir, that was in March last. Ten months have passed since then, and what have they done? Except saying that we have been working 12 or 14 hours a day, we sit up to 12’oclock midnight, we have signed so many routine papers, opened 5 night schools, brought 5000 acres more under irrigation, what else have they done? I ask, Sir, we have been pestered with propaganda leaflets from the Honorable Minister for the Public Works Department. We know that 85 lakhs of rupees are spent on Public Works Department and if the Honorable Minister sanctions one little culvert out of the fund or spends Rs. 50,000 for any work, where is the necessity of issuing a Press Note? We know already about Rs 50. Lakhs are being spent for such maintenance and improvement of the Irrigation works, annually. They said that 150,000 acres of land will be cultivated. What is the promise of the Lloyd Barrage Irrigation Authorities? We have spent 25 corers of rupees on the Barrage and they have promised not 150,000 acres extra, but 53 lakhs of acres of cultivation. But we are not having now even 32 lakhs of acres under cultivation in the Barrage zone.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: I think the Honorable Minister referred to non-Barrage area.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: In old times there were efficient officers and efficient Ministers. Previous Ministers would dispose of matters single-handed, while these gentlemen require Deputy Collectors, Mukhtiarkars, Assistant Engineer, as personal clerks to explain to them the contents of each file! They take 10 hours to understand one file which the previous efficient Minister could dispose of in one hour. That shows clearly that they are inefficient and do not deserve the post.
Then they said that we on opposition benches have compelled them to spend all their time in establishing their Ministry: “You do not give us rest.” They say, Sir, no democratic Government would assume the responsibility of Government unless it feels it is stable. If they are occupying those chairs and drawing those salaries for establishing themselves, they are in honor bound to leave those seats: these offices are meant for different purposes altogether.
Sir, the honorable member, Mr. Jamshed, made an appeal saying that we should co-operate and give them a chance. Chance of what I ask? For shooting us down? Have they come forward and stated what is their party and what is their program of work? I challenge them to show whether any member on this side –irrespective of the fact whether we sit in Opposition or on Government benches –has opposed any good measure of theirs.
Then I come to retrenchment. On the question of retrenchment their performance is a big zero. It is retrenchment to save two or three thousands here or there? The honorable member Mr. Jamshed was our Chairman. We have submitted a very considered report. Anybody who has read that report will readily see the amount of labor we have put on it. They, the Ministers, think the recommendations are not worth their while to consider. They are doing what they are asked by Secretaries to do. Just before the last ministerial crisis it was proposed by th United Party to ask the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain, who was then the Chief Minister to promise a saving of 15 lakhs of rupees in the Public Works Department. This was in addition to annual surrendered savings; real savings by abolition of posts. . . . .
Mr. G. M SAYED: Within this year.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: And decrease the estimates to that extent. The Re-organization Committee has asked for the reduction of 7 divisions and three circles. They may say that the Public Works Department is the special responsibility of His Excellency the Governor. Sir, it is not fair to place the responsibility on His Excellency the Governor. The Governor is there to see that the Department works efficiently.
Everything can be done without consulting His Excellency. It is only the Barrage which is his special responsibility, but there are so many other things as well, for instance, the interests of minorities. I think section 52 of the Act describes what the special responsibility of His Excellency. It is clear from what they say that they want to throw the whole burden of not doing anything on His Excellency. And I do not think that is fair to him. They have no courage to admit that so far as the Public Works Department is concerned, Mr. Gordon is ruling Sind and not they. The real reason for no retrenchment and the Cabinet has surrendered to him.
I come now to the Corruption Committee’s Report. The honorable member Dr. Hemandas, when he was Minister, gave an assurance that whatever we decided in the Committee, he would accept and he did accept our report. Then came the Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas who succeeded him. He told us, Sir, “ That promise was given by previous Minsiter. I do not understand it. Will you kindly explain the report to me?” Sir, we are not paid teachers to explain it to him. We have made our report and we have also shown the reasons for making that report. It is for him to accept or not. IF he cannot understand it, we are not here to teach him. He wanted us to reconsider the whole report because Mr. Gordon took objection to every recommendation that we had made. The Honorable Minster told us that he had written long long notes showing the reason why he should accept Mr. Gordon report. Sir, I will give you one instance, by way of illustration, about this Corruption Committee Report. The whole conference was called by the Government to discuss all reports of various committees where the Honorable the Chief Minister wanted us to discuss de now the recommendations of each Committee. We explained it would serve no useful purpose, but however, we are prepared to sit for further 6 months even –though every one of us is a very busy man and can’t afford to waste time in that manner –if Government only gave an assurance that whatever was decided by us would be accepted by Government. The Honorable the Leader of the House said “No, I cannot give that assurance.” Sir, three committees sat for months. You know Sir, every honorable member is a very busy man, after all no one is an unemployed gentleman. We worked several months and submitted our reports. If Governments were not prepared to accept our reports, then you should have told us so at the beginning. Well, Sir, we started taking votes on the question of supply of eggs and milk. They packed the Committees with officers who also wanted to vote. Now, Sir, non-official member were making certain recommendation to improve the character and conduct of officers of departments, and if those very officers were given the right to vote, what could be expected? Where our recommendation will be every one can imagine. Officers should be in Committees to give technical opinions or information. Government could write and ask for it instead of calling 5 officers to attend the conference. We, therefore, washed our hands from that show. We said we have handed our reports. The credit or blame is entirely Government’s if they accept or reject them.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Next, not a single measure of reforms has been introduced by this Cabinet in this House during the last 10 months. It is all window-dressing that they have done so far. The Acts are there. They have only changed a word here and a word there. The window is already there, only change a hinge, or put a glass here or put a bolt there which had rusted or gone bad. They have brought forward only such sort of amending Bills, most of which were prepared by the previous Cabinet. Only those Bills are brought forward before us. They have not brought before us even a single measure of reform.
Sir, I was very pleased to read the news this morning, which I would like to impart to this House for its benefit. In spite of the Bombay Assembly having passed 30 Bills of very far reaching character during the last 2 years, I read this morning that the Bombay Cabinet was bringing forward before a special session another Bill to scale down debts of agriculturists to their paying capacity. Now just imagine, the agriculturists of the Province of Sind have to pay 24 crores of debts. In Bombay they want to bring forward a Bill to scale down the debts of agriculturists to 4 cores or so that agriculturists will have to pay what they could pay. An agriculturists will have to pay what they could pay. An agriculturist will not have to sell away his chattel or land, but he will be required to pay what he could pay. That is what Bombay intends to do.
Then Sir, they the Bombay Government, are bringing forward another Bill to control marketing, so that the agriculturist may get best price for his produce. They have also introduced compulsory education and prohibition. They have sanctioned crores of rupees for backward areas for education. Now what have the Ministers done here? They asked for 6 months, but we have given them 10 months, and to-day they might gain a victory by promises of personal gains and official whipping, whatever it be, but the country’s verdict is against them definitely. I challenge, let them all go back to the country and see if any of these gentleman supporting this reactionary Government is returned.
Of course the Honorable the Revenue Minister has given out candidly what the Cabinet represents. He says “ I am neither a Hindu nor a Muslim. I am a representative of God.” (Laughter). Of course Mussalmans don’t own him. He can never be a Hindu. Therefore he represent nobody.
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOTPATKAR : He could be converted.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: When he does things against the interests of his own community, how can he be owned by Mussalmans? Whom then does he represent? He cannot be a Hindu because by his actions he has annoyed Hindus also. Therefore he says “ Now I am a representative of God” and he claims to hold his position as a Minister in the Cabinet representing no community and no party. Sir, we never heard of such a position. We had heard of divine rights of kings being claimed in the 9th or 10th century, but here in the 20th century we are hearing from the Honorable Revenue Minister that he has divine rights of Pris. What is then the correct positon he does hold otherwise? He holds the post of Minister by divine rights of Pris!
Sir when the Honorable Revenue Minster went out on tours he wrote several letters to his friends and supporters saying “ I am coming. Kindly make arrangements for me. I will be your guest.” Then big tamashas were held and big dinners were given.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: By a means produce them even now.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I will produce them even now.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Sir, with all this bankruptcy of action they say “We are following Congress example.”
Then, Sir, the Honorable Public Work Department Minister says, “We have to keep social status.” I am really surprised. My dear Sir, Mr. Bulabhai Desai and Mr. Kanayalal Munshi are spending Rs. 5 thousand per month on themselves and they don’t ravel 200 miles a day to earn Travelling Allowance. Honorable member Mr.G. M. Sayed some time back wanted the Ministry to go at aero plane’s speed. Ofcourse in one respect at least this Ministry has got airplane’s speed because they travel 200 miles a day to earn Travelling Allowance.
Sir, this Cabinet has not only not improved the conduct of the officials to become less corrupt and less oppressive, but they have actually encouraged them so much in their behavior against the people of this Province that they have dared to insult the Ministers themselves. The Instance of Police sports can never be lost sight of by this province. It was an insult offered to the whole Province, Sir. You must remember Sir Shah Nawaz while he was only an ordinary member of Bombay Council, was insulted by Police Officer at Jacobabad sports, and result was that the Bombay Government had to come down and apologize.Here the minister are insulted. The Police officers knew that they had invited Ministers. Their proper place must have been reserved. But no; they wanted to ignore our Ministers. They consider them nobodies. They do so because they consider that they are guests of a couple of months in Ministerial Chairs and would submit to any treatment by officers. Finally what happens? Simply a letter from the Inspector-General of Police giving all sorts of excuses satisfies our Ministers. The right course would have been that the people who were responsible for the management of sports should have been dismissed outright. It was an insult offered to the whole Province.
Col. H. J. MAHON: Questions
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, it is no questioning. Then just imagine what is the condition of honorable members, what is the way our members are treated. Let us take one of the honorable members occupying Congress benches and who is a great friend of Honorable Khan Bahadur Khan Bakhsh. It is said that he is supported by him. Officials orders by the Deputy Commissioner, Upper Sind Frontier district, are issued that no officer of Government of Sind should see him when he calls on them on business ! The result is that even the tapedar refuses to see him. Is this not an insult to this House?
Then, Sir, what does one of the Collectors of another district do? Several members of the district go the Collector. They send him a chit. Many members of Legislative Assembly and many other leading gentlemen of the district go to see him about a particular business and send their names in advance. The time is given for the interview. They go there, and then what happens? The Collector keeps one chair for himself and makes all these other gentlemen stand there for 1.5 hours or till the talks terminate.
Sir, the circular that this Assembly passed to the effect that every officer should get up, shake hands and offer a chair to every visitor, was consigned to the waste paper basket by the officialdom in Sind. Even ordinary courtesy is not extended by these blue bloods. I say every man living in this Province of Sind must be courteously treated. Here were the representative of the people of the District, here were the representative of the people of the District, here were the representative of the people of the District, here we are leading gentlemen of district who went to see the Collector, who gave him sufficient notice and when they were called in, they did not get sitting accommodation. They sent a telegraphic S.O.S to the Honorable the Chief Minster “Please come down” He went down there. Sir what does he do? He does not even look at those members who go and receive him, but straightaway goes to the Collector, talks for three hours with him and then eventually comes out and tells the gentlemen who were insulted. “ Now you can go and explain matters to the Collector and everything will be alright.” Should each one go in individually and apologize to the Collector for the this Conduct on the part of the Collector himself, I ask him. I have raised questions on this issue. As it is a very urgent and important matter the Honorable Chief Minister should have replied to these questions on the very first day of the session, but no reply has come forth yet.
Sir, I do not want to repeat what the honorable members of this House who have preceded me have said, but I will only point out that the Honorable Chief Minister has defied public opinion and wasted good 8 months of this Province in not calling a session. In Bombay the session was sitting for 4 months for the Budget session and again it met from the 17th August. From that day up-to 17th November they had 70 sittings in the morning and sometime at night also because the Government were anxious to pass beneficent legislation as early as possible. The congress has placed before the country certain Program at the time of the general elections and two years have passed. They want to implement their program and so they sat from day to day for 70 days between August and November. And they are meeting again. They had 4 months for the Budget session had passed so many healthy Bills which have brought Bombay in high esteem of the outside world. In addition, good opportunity has been given to non-officials in the Bombay Assembly to move their resolutions, but in fact the Government have left so little to be done by non-officials, that there is not much required to be done there by nom-officials. On the days of non-officials business, attendance is poor because members have not do much in view of the Government having done so many things. This is the example of the other provinces. For 8 months here we have been idling, the Assembly was not called and salary was paid to members. The Ministers drew salaries but were nervous to face the Assembly. They thought they must have their stability secured first before facing the Assembly.
Sir, this Province needs money for goof work and there are only two ways of getting money, one is by retrenchment and another by additional taxation. Government has not thought or additional taxation at all. Sir, other provinces have imposed new taxation and have found out so many other means which will not directly touch the agriculturists by finding money from other sources. The Bombay Government has found 60 lakhs of rupees to spend on Prohibition. Here we have given a report saying “You can save Rs. 40 lakhs.” Members of the Committee were all responsible people. They can occupy the chair of the Chief Minister worthily. They understand their responsibility. They made those recommendations. Government of course does not want to look at them.
Then, Sir when we asked for Rs. 70,00 more for primary education of Rs. 26,ooo for Lyari Girls education or when we wanted funds for compulsory education in 8 Districts, the Chief Minister cannot find the money. But he can create appointment of a Deputy Collector for the Honorable the Chief Minster, a Mukhtiarkar for the Revenue Member and Assistant. . . . .
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: That is repetition.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I am just referring to it. That is all. Then, Sir, most of the communal friction is always based on little petty jobs and they should have long ago decided about the communal representation in services. They should have made rules so that no more trouble on that issue might arise. They have failed to do that too.
Then, Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister was pleased to advise Executive Engineer to withdraw a case filed to defamation by that officer against the Editor of a communal paper, “Ekta” of Larkana. Perhaps you know that when the Honorable the Revenue Minster goes on tour in Larkana, that Editor entertains him. But, Sir, for a lesser offence the Editor of “Al Wahid” was convicted and punished and fined.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: And the Editor was handcuffed on the Hyderabad Railway Station.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, they did not anything for the Province, but they have the whole Press Agency at their command to give all sorts of false reports about their doing which the Government have never done. Only a few days ago I read an Associated Press message. You can just imagine a responsible news agency sending out a message that the Government have issued orders prohibiting Lauri Haj, because it offends the sentiment of Muslims. Such misunderstanding to be created.
The Honorable PIr ILLAHI BAKHSH: Government has passed orders.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Thank you, But why was Mr. Mirchandani, the collector of Hyderabad here to consult how to stop the show or how to conduct it peacefully?
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: Why don’t you show them? (Laughter)
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, one gentleman at Karachi takes it into his head to write in the most offensive way articles against the Holy Prophet of Islam. Sir, those articles pained every Muslim. When I heard such and such gentleman had written such articles, I said “I can’t believe it.” It was impossible for him, I said. I go and take hold the originals, Which were in Gujrati. I read them, Sir. My blood boiled reading these writings and so does the blood of every Muslim here. We requested the Government to take action. Muslim they call themselves, those sitting on those treasury chairs. What do they do? They issue orders under section 144 against people agitating, who say to the Ministers. ”Please do your duty , they have insulted the Prophet of Islam, and therefore your action is needed.” But what have you done against the offenders against the man who has committed such heinous offence? They do not have the courtesy to proscribe the book. They still call themselves representatives of Muslim in this Province. It was left to (مردخدا ( i.e God’s man in the Province of Bengal to proscribe that book. The Sind Government under the government of India Act, are bound to repeat those notifications. The notification is repeated in this Province by this Government. Even after this no officer has even visited the Press enquiry how many copies are still left with the printer and publisher for forfeiture. Did he, the Chief Minister, ever enquire if one copy was forfeited to Government? No action was taken. This is how he is using the powers of law and order and his powers to protect the honor of our Prophet. Sir, I have not words to condemn his activities in this matter. If I read what is written and what this gentleman has done, the whole House will go ablaze. Sir, what is this? They call themselves Muslims, and in spite of repeated meeting all over the Province, nay , all over India, and resolutions having been sent to them, and responsible people having written to them, the Honorable the Chief Minister does not take any action. He goes on repeating those notification notifications, putting a gag on the mouths of those people, month after month, who want Government to do its duty. I have to–day one dozen notifications. They are in my file. Now in first notification gagging the tongue of agitators, the District Magistrate writes “in view of the objectionable articles written” by so and so. When the officers of Government hold those articles objectionable, does not ordinary decency, does not ordinary duty require that the Honorable the Chief Minister should take action against the writer, printer and publisher?
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: How long will the honorable member take?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I won’t take very long, Sir. But I have got some very pertinent things to say.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: We must give him one hour. He is going to Haj. He may not come back. (Laughter)
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I am showing how the Honorable Ministers sitting on those chairs are interfering with the administration of justice. The Honorable Minister for Public Works Department said that he recently sent for an Executive Engineer. He made him to do a particular thing as if he is technical expert for getting it done in a particular way.
Then, Sir, I would give an instance of how the Honorable Minister for Revenue is working. One day he takes up the telephone receiver and says to an Inspector who was investigating a certain breach of trust case “Please bring your papers of this case to me.” The Inspector naturally replies: “I can’t do that, Sir; I must have orders of my District superintendent or Superintendent.” The Honorable Revenue Minister insists “No. You must bring the papers to me now.” The Inspector replies “I can’t.”
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Question.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Then, Sir what happens? The Honorable Revenue Minister is upset. He goes to the Honorable Chief Minister. He goes to the Honorable Chief Minister. He says to him that the Inspector must be dismissed or that he must be sent out immediately to some other post.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: It is all nonsense.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: The Honorable the Chief Minister knows it. Then what happens? The Honorable the Chief Minister sends for the Inspector-General of Police and says “Please transfer this Inspector from Karachi.” The Inspector-General says “There are Government order passed twice that this gentleman must not be sent out of Karachi, his life is in danger. For duties performed on behalf of Government, they have decided twice that he cannot go out.” When he was first posted to Karachi, he asked for a transfer as his health was bad and the Karachi climate did not suit him. He was made to stay on. Ultimately Government decided that he could not go out as his life was in danger. When the Inspector-General is told to transfer the Inspector must go from here.” The District Superintendent of Police and says “These are the orders of the Chief Minister and the Inspector must go from here.” The District Superintendent of Police gets rather wroth. He says “How can Government do that?”, because the District Superintendent of Police accidentally happened to be the same officer who had been helped by this Inspector in performing certain duties, and he knew that on account of the discharge of those duties the Inspector’s life was in danger. But the Inspector-General of Police says :”We have got the order of the Chief Minster. What can we do?” What is the Inspector to do under those circumstances? He says:”You dismiss me if you like. I cannot go out of Karachi.” This is, Sir, how the administration of this Province is being run.
KHAN ABAHADUR A.K. GABOL: Was he dismissed?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: He went on leave. It is for the Honorable Chief Minister to deny or refute the statements that I am now making.
Under sections 401 and 402, Criminal Procedure Code, Government has been given power to reprieve to certain convicted persons. This Power has been very freely utilized by the present Minister. If you take the total number of persons who were given reprieve during many years, you will find, Sir, that the number during the regime of the present Ministry is greater. I shall give an illustration. A gentleman commits theft or breach of trust in Hyderabad. He is convicted for six months and is sentenced to a fine of Rs. 500. An appeal is made for reprieve and reprieve is given.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: What is his name?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I will you the name if you want. Sir, his name is Mirchandani, he is the brother of Mr. Hashmatrai Mirchandani, who is the Manager of the Karachi Urban Co-operative Bank.
Then, Sir, there are certain people who commit murders in Khipro. They are very rich people. They spend Rs. 20,000 over night over the Police, and the Police don’t take action against them. Unfortunately honorable member KHAN BAHADUR GHULAM NABI SHAH is not here, otherwise I am sure he would bear me out in this matter. When after great effort the Police and persuaded to take action, a prosecution is filed against the men and they are convicted for life. Imagine the surprise of my life, Sir, when I go to Mirpurkhas last month and learn that those people, after serving 2 or 3 years of their imprisonment, have been given reprieve.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: May I know their names?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: They are banias of Khipro. I will send you their names to-morrow. I have not got them with me at present. Then, Sir, the Honorable member Dr.Wadhwani, when he wwas Minister for Public works Department, decided that an Indian Architect should be selected for constructing Government buildings. The Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas, immediately he took over charge cancelled those orders and appointed one non-Indian for the reasons which he has explained to-day, because a friend of his is going to be that non-Indian’s partner.
Then, Sir, an honorable member on the Hindu Independent Party benches made a complaint to the Honorable Minister for Public Works Department, then Dr Hemadas Wadhwani, that one Assistant Engineer was not complying with his request to give him more water he deserved. That Assistant Engineer refused to deprive other smaller people of their due share of water. That complaint was sent to the Remembrance of Legal Affairs, who supported the Assistant Engineer that he acted correctly. As soon as the present Public Work Department Minister takes over charge, There-opens the case and he punishes the Assistant Engineer for not complying with the request. The zamindar now gets more water, and I think he derives an additional income Rs. 15000 a year on that account. If men in the position of Assistant Engineers are demoralized like that, how do you expect other officer to act impartially?
The Honorable Mr.NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: What is his name?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I will give you. It is Mr. M Gidwani.
The Honorable Mr.NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: There was a charge of defalcation against him.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: There is no truth in that. If you appoint a Committee of enquiry, I will prove it.
Then, Sir, one honorable gentleman of this House gets an anonymous application to the Honorable the Revenue Minister against a Mukhtiarkar of a Taluka. The Revenue Commissioner is asked to give a charge sheets to the Mukhtiarkar. The Mukhtiarkar says “Let me retire. I don’t want to serve ant longer. Having rendered meritorious services for a number of years, I cannot continue in the Government service under these conditions.” He has served 33 years. He is 53 years of age now. He is not yet allowed to retire.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: May I know the name?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: He is Mukhtiarkar of Sakro. Mr. Lakhimal. The charge against him is that it had been found out that certain tapedars had shown certain cultivated areas as uncultivated. He gives his explanation that he is required to inspect and scrutinize a certain percentage of the survey numbers only. He says:” I have scrutinized, they are all correct. If they are found to be false, I can charged that I have connived at the forgery. But I have not seen the other survey numbers.” When he has not seen the other survey numbers, how can he be accused?
Sir, the Honorable the Public Works Department Minister gets a complaint, -and I have read this incident in the newspaper –from a clerk in the Secretariat, one Mr. Joseph, who was convicted in some Court and the Honorable Public Works Department Minister was then his Advocate and had defended him . . . .
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : I never knew him.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: This clerk tells him that a certain Sub-Inspector of Police s asking for bribes.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : Not a taking but extorting bribes.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Very well, extorting bribes. He informs him that the Sub-Inspector is extorting a bribe from a certain gentleman who was some times the client of the Honorable Minister.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : No, “Make investigation.” Is there anything wrong in it?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Yes, the thing should be done in proper manner from the point of view of administration.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Was it cognizable offence?
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI : It was extortion by the Police.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Then I will come to what out honorable friend the Honorable Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh has been doing. Sir, The honorable the Chief Minister is known all over Sind to be a friend and savior and protector of officers.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: What savior?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: He had got one Police Inspector as his friend. That Police Inspector, when he was Sub-Inspector in Shikarpur, used to take our honorable friend as a Police Mashir. Then he became Inspector. He was accused by a certain gentleman of having made Rs. 90,000 or lakh or rupees by bribes. Government compelled that Inspector to file a prosecution against that gentleman He filed a prosecution. But what happens? He did not pursue it. Twice he remained absent in court and the Court dismissed the prosecution. Then, Sir, this gentleman –the Police and again put in charge of the same Shikarpur Division. There was already a Deputy Superintendent there who had hardly been in charge of that Division for a weeks. But this friend of our Honorable the Chief Minister is sent there where he was accused by a person of extorting bribes. You can imagine, Sir, what protection and safety the people will be feeling in that Division when an officer who has been accused of extorting bribes is transferred there.
Mr. G. M. Sayed: What is his name?
(voices: Allah Bakhsh)
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Then, Sir, when the Honorable the Revenue goes on tour, he writes to Mukhtiarkar to collect complainst against officers.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: That is not correct.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: The he gets lakhs of applications.
Congress Benches: Lakhs
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: At least it was so given in the Sind Observer, the Ministerial organ, as matter of admiration. This paper praised the Ministry in season an out of season, and it was there said that one lakh of applications were received.
Sir, calculate the cost entailed to the poor people. At least the writing charges for each application will be annas 4 and there is the stamp of 8 annas.
The honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: There is no stamp applied on the applications.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Half of them at least are stamped.
The honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Not a single one is stamped.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: These applicants often do not come alone. Moreover, they come from long distances ; they come and sit here and the Honorable the Minister receives the petites. Now, if each petition costs Rs. 10, it means 10 lakhs of rupees wasted. (Laughter). Ten lakhs of rupees of these poor people who can ill-afford even to spare one rupee, are wasted on these Ministers.
Then, Sir, see what their won Police Officers have to say about the Ministers and what certificate they get for them. This is the certificate given to them in the Administration Report of the Police certificate given to them in the Administration. Report of the Police Department in Sind The remark appears para. 49 of the Report:-
“The police are servants of the Crown and are employed in the service of the Public. When prominent members of the Legislative Assembly tell the people that the Police are their servants, they are likely to mislead and do a dis-service to the public. The police are the guardians of the people and are responsible for the preservation of law and order. This responsibility should not be impaired by loose talk.” (Laughter)
This was the certificate given by their own officer, their sub-ordinates, because the Honorable the Revenue Minister was shown in a cartoon in a paper with a danda in his hand telling the people, “I shall beat the officers with the stick.”
Sir, there were serious complaints against the Mukhtiarkars of Kambar made to the Honorable the Revenue Minister. Has the Honorable Minister investigated them? What did he do? He promoted him and transferred him to Karachi City.
Then, there were serious complaints against the Inspector and Sub-Inspector of Sakrand given to the Revenue Minster. How does the Honorable the Revenue Minister deal with him? He transfers him to the Nara Valley, the best and most fruitful valley of Indus and paradise of officials!
The honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: I did not transfer him.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Then you must have managed it.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: May I know the name of that Sub-Inspector?
The honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: It must be Mir Fateh Khan. Who else can there be?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: There were serious complaints against him and nothing has happened.
Then the police had gone to Moro and at the point of bayonet extorted bribe. Complaints were made to Government and people were told “You go to Court. Prove your case and the Court will punish them.”
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: What were the names of officers involved?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Those officers continue to be there.
Sir, this all due to the incompetency of our Cabinet to protect the people of this Province. Having got this one lakh of applications, they cannot say that they do not know what the grievances of the people are, that there is no zulum or oppression. But, Sir, what is the result of these applications? It has done more harm than good. These applications are forwarded to those very officers against whom complaints are made. They are challaning those people every day, beating them and making them write that what was written in the applicants was not correct.
Then, Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister is very friendly with the officers, even petty officers. I was pained to hear the other day that he goes with his files to the Secretaries in their rooms or their houses. That is enough disgrace and indignity for the Province. I also learn that he visits the Mukhtairkar and the City Magistrate of Shikarpur when he is there.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: No Sir,
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Well, Sir, I am very glad to hear that, but this is the common talk:
Then Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister, taking advantage of his position, has got undue advantage over other zamindars. I want to give a few instances of that.
There was a Civil Suit against the Honorable Chief Minister –Suit No. 573 of 1936, In Shikarpur Sub-Court. One Mr. Radhomal was plaintiff. Mr. Varumal was the Judge. The suit was decided against the poor plaintiff, and Mr. Varumal, instead of retiring, had been given a fresh life to serve for a further period –quite an unheard of thing –in Sind. I had learnt this from talks in the Karachi Club with members of legal professions.
The HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: No mention about the talk in the Karachi Club.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: When was the suit decided and what was the amount involved?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Whatever it may be, but it is the fact. I am told that the amount involved was Rs. 23000.
Then, Sir, the Honorable the Chief Minister one day in Sukkur was going in a motor car and the driver killed a poor employee of Sukkur Municipality. The Honorable the Chief Minister appeared as a witness in that case. The Magistrate –a very obliging gentleman –let off that driver and as a reward this gentleman is now posted as a Deputy Collector in his own native place, Larkana.
Now I am coming to further serious allegations. The Honorable the Chief Minister had been able to secure about 1350 jirebs in the Mohag of other zamindars, somewhere near Hamayan, at concessionary rates.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: When?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: You must be knowing better.
The HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Honorable member must give dates.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Before the became the Minister, but he got that also for being a whip of Government. He got that in partnership with the Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto. Till he became Chief Minister, he could not get water from the Karias of other zamindars, as Mr. Framji, the then Executive Engineer, could not see his way to put that additional land also on the already meagre sluices held by the neighboring zamindars. But after the Honorable Chief Minister became Premiere, the local Executive Engineer pressed the zamidars to agree to the water being given to Honorable Khan Bahadur for his those lands out of their karias and, on their refusing to do so, the Public Work Department Officials got breaches caused into those karias by force and supplied the Khan Bahadur with water, with the result that, whereas even his waste lands got water, the crop of the original zamindars seemed to have withered due to insufficiency of water. I have got before me the statement of Wadero Dur Mohamed Sadahayo of Humayun and other zamindars equally affected.
The HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Is the honorable member reading from written speech?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Yes, Sir, I am reading because there are so many names of dehs and number of zamindars ; otherwise I might mis-read the names.
Then the next allegation is that in the non-Barrage area the practice is that land in the mohags of particular zamindars is not given on permanent tenure to the outsiders, but after the Honorable the Chief Minister assumed the reins of office the officials below have been too liberal in granting lands in the mohags of other people to the Honorable Chief Minister’s brother and friends, not only against the wishes of the zamindars entitled to have those lands but at very concessionary rates. Those survey number are situated in deh Hamayun of Shikarpur taluka and their area spreads over hundreds of acres. The Honorable members who are themselves zamindars will realize what a great iniquity underlies the granting of lands to strangers in the mohags of other persons. Many time it causes friction and constant quarrel between the zamindars if the mohags are given to strangers. The Honorable the Chief Minister, after assuming the reins of his office, has been getting these mohag lands sometimes in his own name and sometimes in his own name and sometimes in his brother’s name, Sir, there are many zamindars affected by the grant of mohags to Khan Bahadur. I have got 12 names. They are: Bahadur Sadhayo, Karim Bakhsh Sadahyo, Nabibux Sadhayo, Allah Rakhio Sadahyo, Kasim Khan Sadahyo, Murad Khan Sadhayo, and so on, all of whom are very small khtedars and as such the hardship and the injustice that have thus been caused to them could not catch the eyes of the officials. They have been crying against the violation of the sanctity of mohag rights and privileges. The mohag land are never given to strangers, but the Chief Minister must make hay while the sun shines.
Sir, now I will come to another instances in which he has taken lands in the mohags of other zamindars from Government without any restriction, and subsequently he has partially sold out those lands to other zamindars and made a profit out of it. He got 2000 jirebs of lands on Begari Canal recently, and has sold half of it to one Seth Mulchand of Mian-jo-Goth for Rs. 30000.
Sir, the position which the Honorable the Chief Minister has come to enjoy is not being exploited by himself alone for his purpose, but is being exploited by his very close friends.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable member should not read from the written speech. He can speak from memory and refer to notes wherever necessary.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, in deh Wasand Kalhoro, tapo Nur Mahomed Shujra, taluka Shikarpur, there are 500 jirebs of land in the mohag of local kahtedars. One of his friends wanted that land for himself. He went to the Deputy Collector. Those small khatedars also applied to the Deputy Collector. Those small khatedars also applied to the Deputy Collector for the grant of Mohags to them. But a condition was imposed that the whole of the malkano money shall have to be paid on the spot. This condition was laid down merely to make it impossible fot the Khatedars the legitimate Mohag holders to pay the whole amount at once. The practice ordinarily is that even in the case of valuable Barrage lands at least 10 installments are given, but in the case of these lands even that small concession had been peremptorily denied to the small khatedars in orders to pave the way for a stranger. In spite of that strict condition, the small khatedars went to the Deputy Collector with the money on the appointed date, but the Deputy Collector with the money on the appointed date, but they were not called in, and when they went home back, somebody informed them that a friend of the Honorable the Chief Minister had acquired those lands. Is that not injustice to the poor Khatedars? If these lands had not been given to a friend of the Honorable Chief Minister, Government would also have got have got a good price for those lands.
Now, Sir, I come to another instance. The khatedars of deh Kumbh Ravati, deh Wasand Kalhoro and deh Arija, tapo Nur Mahomed Shujra, taluka Shikarpur, have been subjected to serious difficulty. They take water out of Khalhora Branch of Begari Canal.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, will he kindly give me the names of the dehs?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Dehs Kumbh Ravati, deh Wasand Kalhoro and deh Arija, tapo Nur Mahomed Shujra, taluka Shikarpur. Sir, Khan Bahadur’s lands were getting less water. Water-courses of other people were moduled and their supply decreased, whereas Khan Bahadur’s water course had no modules, and he was given abundant supply. Then there is another question. There are certain dehs, like deh Bhati Nur Muhammad, in Shikarpur where Khan Bahadur has a special karia, which cuts through the lands of other people. Zamindars, when requested, refused to give permission for such a water-course to be constructed. The officers pressed them under the Irrigation Act, and the zamindars, through whose land it passed, had to bow down. If any land is required for public purpose, proceedings under the Land Acquisition Act have to be taken. Here those officers were creating a bad precedent; and further, zamindars were told “ You will get water out of this Khan Bahadurs’s new karia when the karia had been moduled.” Those people were being not troubled and their cultivation has suffered terribly due to this karia having cut across other people’s karia.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: May I know the name of deh?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Tapo Nur Muhammad.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: A copy maybe supplied to the Honorable Leader of the House. I would request the honorable member to supply a copy to the Leader of the House.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Now, Sir, in deh Bhati Nur Muhammad he has taken Mohag lands to the extent of 4000 or 5000 jirebs, and then what does he do? I may tell you why I have brought this point.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: I am thankful.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: This Land the Khan Bahadur cultivated and he cultivated some other Government land adjacent, also unauthorized. Now as the cultivation had been unauthorized, the Government rules provided that he should pay ten times the assessments as fine. But no fine was imposed and remission given for unauthorized land and Khan Bahadur allowed to enjoy the produce!
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: In what deh and in what year? In fairness he should mention the name of deh.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I will give you everything. I have got the original papers. I have already mentioned the deh for this unauthorized cultivation.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Will the Honorable member finish his speech? There is very short time. He should finish his speech soon.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, all these incidents of depriving others of their rights have caused nervousness in the zamnindars and cultivators of adjacent lands; they are deprived of their water supplies; and their cultivation withers, while that of the Khan Bahadur which had been getting no water is now getting bounteous supply of water, and whether crops fail or not, he gets remission.
Then, Sir, he is incharge of law and order. He has appointed five Sub-Judges, and whom does he appoint? A partner of the Honorable Revenue Minister who had hardly nine months’ experienced in spite of better qualified people.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: No, 3 years. It was done by Public Service Commission.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: You have right of reply. I am giving you an opportunity to remove that impression.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Fair denial is enough. No arguments.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Then, Sir, there is one tapedar who enjoys Government salary, but never works in his tapa.
A Honorable Member: What is his name?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: He is attending on an honorable member for the 24 hours of day and night and, so the rumor goes, the honorable member is supposed to be in his pocket, the pocket of that tapedar, and our Minister go and beg that tapedar to secure the vote of that honorable member.
KHAN BAHADUR A. K. GABOL: Why?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: For the stability of the Ministry. Then, Sir, this tapedar’s cousin gets Sub-Judge’s appointment.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: But it is done by the Public Service Commission.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: We know all that, as to how it is manipulated. And that is why I have moved a resolution that the Public Service Commission is no good to the interest of Sind.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: They should not be subjected to criticism in this House.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I have told and you must have known about the famous case of Aerodrome at Sukkur where there were lot of defalcations, and one Executive Engineer had to go out of office and one Assistant Engineer too. I am now told the and he has now applied for revision of Government orders and reinstatement in service. I hope this is wrong, but this is my information.
The Honorable KHAN BAHADUR ALLAH BAKHSH: HE is wrong.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I can impart information to the Chief Minster to find out the facts himself.
Sir, these are the actions done by our Ministers. As regards what is not done, of course we know they have done nothing, except mere routine. This is the smallest Province of India, but still it spends 3.5 Crores of rupees. Honorable members of this House have now been clearly shown and they must have come to the conclusion that not an iota of the national schemes devised by the Congress have yet been adopted here. That they have done nothing is plain; and it is also plain that they have no principles, no policy, and no parties, and they do not enjoy the confidence of the Province. If it is alleged that they do enjoy the confidence of this House, I have shown you how they have come to enjoy the confidence of this House and also because the honorable members on my right have chosen to remain neutral. Otherwise we would have shown even whether they do enjoy the confidence of this House.
With these remarks I support the vote of no-confidence against the Ministry, and I think we have shown how they do not deserve to occupy those chairs.
SAYED MUHAMMAD ALI SHAH: (In Sindhi) Sir, I had no intention o speak to-day because I do not consider this subject so important as to speak on it; but honorable member Mr. Gazdar has stated certain points which require explanation. I feel it my duty to place the facts as they are, before the honorable members of this House and I leave it to them to judge.
What was the strength of the Sind United Party in the beginning? There were about 10 to 20 members, one or two of them left the party for reasons best known to them, and it is on this account that the honorable members of the opposition say that the Sind United Party is not in existence. It is just like saying that the Indian National Congress ceases to exist if one member leaves the body. The fact is that honorable member Mr. GAZDAR was originally a member of the Sind United Party, and he was made Parliamentary Secretary in the late Ministry of Sir Ghulam Hussain.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: With the order of the Party.
SAYED MUHAMMAD ALI SHAH: (In Sindhi) But as ill-suck would have it, the Secretary ship lasted for nine days only. When this Ministry came into existence, honorable member Mr. Gazdar left the Sind United Party and now he states that the Sind United Party has broken down if only one member leaves the party because of personal grudge. Allow me to say further, Sir, that when the leader of our United Party became the Chief Minister, only three members left the party because their personal desires could not be fulfilled and still 8 members continued to remain in the Sind United Party. Now it is stated because of those three members, the Sind United Party had left its leader. That is quite wrong. The leader of the Party is still there; 8 members continue to remain in the party. Ordinary members have left the party and they assert that the party has broken down.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: (In Sindhi) Did not the leader of your party resign the leadership?
SAYED MUHAMMAD ALI SHAH: (In Sindhi) It has also been stated that members have proved faithless to the Muslim League. When the President of the All-India Muslim League, Kaid-eAizam Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah, had come over here, he had sent for all the Muslim members of the Sind Assembly. He explained to us that the main reason for the starting a Muslim League and we stick to them even upto to-day. When Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah left this place, the Sind Muslim League Party refused to follow the principles of the All-India Muslim League Party.
In order to satisfy their personal ambitious an intrigue was conceived behind the curtain. Muslim members were directed to sit on the benches meant for the Muslim member refused to sit on those benches, steps would be taken against him. On the 4th January 1939, conversation of certain responsible members that the only reason of forming a Muslim league block in the Assembly was to bring a vote of no-confidence against the present Ministry and to compel the party to vote in the division, so that the downfall of the present Ministry would surely come. It was not one of the principles of the Muslim League and that is why we refused to sit on this, I may say an artificial block, and this is why we are termed traitors. Now, Sir, I dare say that Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah was not against this Ministry. Leaving aside the principles of the All-India Muslim League, I give you the principles of the Sind Muslim League: their first and foremost principle was to break this Ministry and form their Ministry. Therefore those members who do not support the Muslim league in the achievement of their objects cannot be blamed.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Order, order. The Gallery should not disturb the House. They must sit down for a few minutes more.
SAYED MUHAMMAD ALI SHAH: (In Sindhi) Now, let us come to the question of assessment which has caused so much trouble. The assessment that has been proposed by Government is unjust or may be unjust. We say that Government should give effect to these proposals after public opinion has been invited. IF the Ministry does not make necessary changes in the light of Public opinion, we should not support the Ministry. At present there has been no such discussion in the House. The proposals will be placed before the House before any final orders are passed. A no–confidence motion at this stage is therefore premature. If at the time of discussion of the land assessment question it is proved to the Government that it is unjust to increase the assessment and if Government does not agree, then and then only will it be our duty no to help the present Government. Collection of assessment has not yet begun. Our Public Work Department Minister has expressed that the question of assessment will be decided in this session. Government gives us an opportunity to decide this question in the current session.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, on a point of information. He seems to be in the confidence of Government. I want to know whether the collection of land revenue which has been imposed on the Province is being suspended. In the ordinary course it will be collected in February.
KHAN BAHADUR M. A. KHUHRO: (In Sindhi) Does the honorable member know that the revenue year ends on the 31st July? Government had passed the orders before 31st July 1938 in the last year.
SAYED MUHAMMAD ALI SHAH: (In Sindhi) It is a fact. I had only to answer what honorable member Mr. Gazdar had said.
12th Jan. 1939
NO –CONFIDENCE MOTION : DISCUSSION RESUMED.
K.B. A. K. GABOL: Sir, I had no desire to speak on this vote of no confidence which is moved against the present Minsitry by my old friend, the honorable member. Mr. G. M. Sayed I just want to touch a few points regarding myself and the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed, first when he came to the District Local Board as a member and when I was also a member, in 1927. He tried to become Vice-President and then President of the District Local Board. I would not have mentioned these points had he not himself admitted before this Honorable House the day before the yesterday that he was responsible to throw out the Sir Ghulam Hussain Ministry. Now let me tell you, Sir, How he used the word “Ghdarai”, which is in English “ Arch Intriguer”.
An Honorable Member: It means a traitor.
K.B. A. K. GABOL: You don’t kow how to speak ! (Laughter)
Now, Sir, the question is this. Really he is capable of these things. Every member, every man has not these things. Every member, every man has not these brains to put up one Ministry, then set up another Minsitry, and be prepared for a third. Really it is a matter of shame that we today are finding disunity among the Muslims of this Province. Our Muslim voters have sent us to do some good work for the public. But from these three days’ debate. I do not find any one from the Congress Benches or from the Hindu Independent Party supporting this motion, or opposing this motion. It is evident that something is wrong in our own house. Sir, I was present that night when the Honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain had given a dinner in honor of the honorable member our ex member Mr. Raschen. When our honorable friend was present, he was dining with Sir Ghulam Hussain on the same table. The next morning we came here and just after 2 o’clock, Sir Ghulam Hussain told me that G.M Sayed had come to him and told him that he was with Sir Ghulam Hussain. Well, there it is for this Honorable House to judge, what it is to leave others at a moment’s notice. Three days before that I had a talk with the present Honorable the Leader of the House. Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh, I am not going to hold any brief for him. Sir, was not aware that he was going to be Minister. On the contrary I told him “ Khan Bahadur, you are going to be Minister.” He said, “ I am not. I abhor the idea.” Sir, wires were then sent to him, but it is for him to clear the position later on.
Now,Sir, I appreciate the speech which was made yesterday by the honorable member from Dadu, and he has been criticized by some press outside.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: No press is to be mentioned.
K.B. A. K. GABOL: I have nothing ti do with them. I cannot understand how we should move in bringing about unity in our own house. When he had the Muslim League Conference, I remember the words of “Kaid-e-Azam” Jinnah,-he said, “ I have come here to break one Ministry and have another Ministry. I have come to make unity among the Muslims. Let all Muslims join together and put their forces against any other community if they are not getting proper treatment.” If today I support the present Ministry, those belonging to the Muslim League will say “ You are a Ghahdari, or “Kafir”, you are supporting a Hindu Sabha Ministry”. Don’t you realize in these three days debate not a single honorable Hindu member has raised his voice, and has told that this Ministry is right or that Ministry is right. Therefore let us decide our fate among ourselves. I will be too happy and will be the first man to vote, and will be prepared to do any sacrifice if my friends are prepared to make a majority and make a Muslim League Ministry. Even our Kaid-e-Azam had a talk with the Honorable Minister Mr. Nihchaldas and said “ I never debarred our Hindu friends from coming and joining us.” If today I am not going to fulfill the wishes of the General Secretary of the Muslim League, my honorable friend SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID or the President of the Muslim League who happens to be a great friend of mine –in election we had our own affairs to settle –tomorrow you will find big articles are printed and meetings held that Khan Bahadur Gabol is not a Muslim. But I assure you I have got greater sympathy for the Muslim League than any other honorable member present in this Hall. (Laughter). I am much more a Muslim League than my friends Mr. G.M. Sayed. Only the day before yesterday he was with the Congress. Today he is a Muslim Leaguer. God knows how long he is going to remain with the Muslim League! Sir, the honorable member is a great friend of mine, as I told you in the beginning. Not only that, but he belongs to the honorable society, the world-wide society of free masons and he was with me before. But he left me also from these. I do not want to mention that!
Now I come to clear my position. I will support the present Ministry if they have done any good deeds. I will not support them if they have not done ay good deeds. They should not think for a moment. . . . .
Mr. M. A KHOSO: What do you mean by good deeds!
K.B. A. K. GABOL: I will explain. If anybody does good deeds, everybody will call him a good man. So far I have gone round about to clear my position as a Mussalman.
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOTPATKAR: Why go round about? Why not come straight! (Laughter)
K.B. A. K. GABOL: I have greater sympathy for the Muslim community than my other friends. But allow me to tell you that I will not sell my community for anyone to be made a Minister or even the Governor of Sind. I will be the last person to sell my Muslim community if anybody will offer me the Governorship of Sind. (Roars of laughter). Question are coming up about religion being in danger. If somebody is ot getting a job as a Minister, then some say “Religion is in danger”.
Dr. POPATLALKAR A. BHOOTPATKAR: Have you any religion?
K.B. A. K. GABOL: I have got a better religion than you have, my friend. I will come on you also very nicely. (Laughter). If Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh becomes the Chief Minister, we say: “Well, he has not done anything for the Mussalmans”. We give him any number of abuses. But if my other friends from the League Party becomes Ministers, then other say “This is Muhammad Raj”. But we have not been taught all this by our religion. Our religion is a liberal religion. Let us know do some work for the Public. Every honorable member here will agree with me that we have come here, Sir, to do something good for the public. If my brother, if my cousin, if my relation could not get a job, it is not fair to say: “Well so and so is bad, or so and so is good”. I have never requested the Government to do anything for me for my relations.
Dr.POPATLAL A. BHOOTPAKAR: You have not requested any one including the Commissioner?
K.B. A. K. GABOL: He was my friend. (Laughter). Now, Sir, the question is this. I have got figures and proofs with me. But I am sorry I cannot disclose them at this stage, because after all the members of this Honorable House are my colleagues. I do not want to expose them.
Now I turn the page against the present Ministry. Who is responsible for bringing in the gentleman now sitting on the Ministerial chairs to be our Ministers? Even if the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed has brought a curse on us, we must not say “You are responsible, not we”. Without hearing both parties, we must not give our judgment, condemn a man and hang him because he has not fulfilled our wishes. The same speech in better terms has been made, not once but many times by the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain that present Ministry have three dictators. When for one man there are three dictators , three masters, what can he do? A says “Do this.” B says “ Do that.” C says “Do as I tell you.” Whom can one please although they went out of their way and tried to please the three dictators? But they cannot do more. Therefore some of the dictators have left them, and I do not know what will be the fate of other. Last year I sent a resolution, but drawing in the lottery did. . . . . . . .
Dr.POPATLAL A. BHOOTPAKAR: Which lottery, Sir?
K.B. A. K. GABOL: Drawing this lottery in the ballot box as to whose member’s resolution come first. The honorable member Dr. Popatlal must realize that this no-confidence motion is a very serious matter. He should not make any remarks since he is neither going to speak nor is he going to vote on it, but sitting ‘mum’. Therefore he should not take part in the proceedings. IF he has any courage, let im speak for or against the motion and vote as he likes. If not he had better go away and attend to his dispensary! (Renewed Laughter).
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: What about the points which the Honorable the Deputy Speaker wanted to bring out?
K.B. A. K. GABOL: I want him to be Silent, Sir. Now the question is this. This Honorable House by a resolution, has agreed to open a High School in the Lyari Quarter where the people living there are of labor class. We had a committee. We sent our report to the Government to open High School. Up to now I do not see that they have got any idea of opening a high school in the Lyari Quarter. But I have seen them appointing deputy collectors, collectors and secretaries, paying Rs. 2000 or Rs 3000 per month. Up to now er have not been told that they are going to open a High School in the Lyari Quarter where 65000 laboring class of people of all castes and creeds are living. That is my grievance against the present Minstry. I think it is quite sufficient for me to give strong warring to the present Government. I tell the present Government that if you do not allot an amount for the High School in Lyari Quarter in your next budget in February, I shall be the first man to say that these Ministers are not worth sitting here and occupying those Government Benches. Everybody here is out to help the rich man. But what about the poor? You must help the needy person and not the one who is already rich. You must give every kind of facility to the poor people of this Province.
Now, Sir, the Honorable the P.W.D. Minister or some other Minister said that they had added one more feather in their cap because they had done away with all the Honorary and Special Magistrates and also nominated member of the District Local Boards. Allow me, Sir, to tell them that in the whole of India, even in the Congress Provinces, they have not with one stroke done away altogether with these institution but they are doing it gradually. My point is this. I am not saying why you have removed them, but all that I wish to say and make a complaint of is why you have removed them before the expiry of their term of office. This is nothing short of breach of promise. Government should have told them “Look here, gentleman, after one year, in the next election, you will not be required.” That would have been the proper course. Now, many of them whom the Government drove out in this manner have been returned elected to Municipalities and Local Boards and some of them even unanimously .But who was responsible for that? It was our honorable friend there( pointing to the Congress Benches). They held pistol before the Minsitry saying “If you do not do this , we shall not support you.” Where are those friends today? Are they going to support the Ministry? No. (Laughter). Whatever they wanted out of you, they have got; and now they are finding other friends. (Laughter). This is irresponsible body like the Congress. . . . . . . . .. .
Miss JETHIBAL T. SIPAHIMALANI: irresponsible?
K.B. A. K. GABOL: Now what do these people do when the vote of no –confidence is moved against the Government? I am surprised why they are sitting there silent. They do not want to advise us here what we should in this matter, although individually every friend of mine has told me what should be done.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I rise to a point of order. The Honorable the Deputy Speaker is repeating his arguments.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable the Deputy Speaker should avoid repeating.
K.B. A. K. GABOL: I was speaking about the Congress group. Sir, they are not going to speak today. I like the congress. It is a local body. . . . . . . . .
THE HONORABLE MEMBERS: Local body? (Laugher)
K.B. A. K. GABOL: Sir, they cannot understand where the wrong is. The wrong is in their own house. We cannot help it. Our Sindhi friends go on changing like the River Indus. You will never find the River Indus sticking to one course. Every day it will change from one course to another. Now, we are all drinking that Indus water and so we must also change. (Laughter)
Sir, I shall not take any more time of the House, but will make only a few remarks. A suggestion was made yesterday by the Honorable member from Dadu, who is an old friend of mine, that we must make some compromise. Well, I assure him, “ I shall be the first man to join with you, but unfortunately, you have won only one friend who will now be sitting on the Independent Benches, but if you want me I shall come over there. Let us be three at least.”
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: But what about the honorable member Mr. Naraindas?
K.B. A. K. GABOL: Oh! He is anywhere and everywhere?
Sir, I hold no brief for Government, but I only say this. Kindly think over twice before you do anything. Consider calmly and carefully. If you throw out this Ministry by a vote of no –confidence, which other Ministry are you going to bring? Again my honorable friend Mr. Sayed will bring another Ministry which he will dismiss after three months. (Laughter). Sir, we should not so lightly deal with the lives and property of the people of this poor province. Let us do some real solid business. After all, Sir, we came here for doing some business. Excuse me, Sir, for repeating these words. The fight is between two Muslim Groups. One Group says “Please come and sit here”. Another says also “Please come and sit here”. Now, that is very bad that we Muslim should fight amongst ourselves in this manner. Let us put a stop to this once and for all. If this vote of no-confidence had been moved by my honorable friend Sir Ghulam Hussain or by the honorable member Shaikh Sahib or by K.B. Khuhro or anybody else, I would have supported it. But those honorable members were wiser. They said “we are not going to bring it and that is why my honorable friend Mr. Sayed too well and have got it before me. I say very sorry for him.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: On a point of information, Sir, I want to know if the honorable the Deputy Speaker belongs to any party or not, or he is a no party man, and whether the statement made by him in his speech that he would go over to the Independent group was made seriously. I would like to know to which party he belongs.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: I cannot insist on his declaring his faith and creed. If, however, the Honorable the Deputy Speaker is prepared to declare it, I have no objection.
K.B. A. K. GABOL: Sir, I have the honor to be the Deputy Speaker of this Assembly, and I want to tell the honorable member there that I belong to no party. (Laughter). As the Deputy Speaker of this House, I wish to see which party is right and which party is wrong, and I shall always support the right party. I have not received any communication from Kaid-e-Azam Mr. Jinnah to go and vote against this Ministry. Any order from Karachi or Sind I am not going to obey.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Sir, the honorable member who has just sat down is inconsistent himself. In one breath he says he is no party man and in another he says he belongs to the Muslim League.
An Honorable Member: He does not own local Muslim League.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Sir, I would like to make a few observations. This is a very important question, and I would request the honorable members of this House to consider this question dispassionately and seriously. This is a very important question. The constitutional implications of this motion are of far-reaching consequence. What will be the result? IF the motion of no –confidence is carried, the Ministry must resign. There is no other alternative.
Sir, before deal with the consequences of this question, I will say a few words. I will tell my honorable friend the mover of the motion and those who have spoken against this Ministry. “As you sow, So you reap”. (Hear, Hear). After the fall of my Ministry, I do not find in Sind a new heaven, nor a even a new Assembly Hall of my honorable friend Mr. Sidhwa.
Before I discuss this question, I will refer my Honorable friend the Chief Minister, who is now occupying a prominent place place here, to the humble advice which I gave him in this Honorable House on 30th March 1938. I then said : “Sir, I pity the plight of the Honorable the Chief Minister, who is under three dictators, one from the Congress; another the honorable member Mr. Sayed, and the third, the honorable member Mr. Partabrai”. He did not then take my advice. He wanted to get in there anyhow, and he must now be very repentant.
The Honorable K.B. ALLAH BAKHSH: That is so.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Sir, what is the situation today? One of his dictators today has moved a motion of no-confidence against him. Well, if my honorable friend wants me to it down, I will not speak any more.
The Honorable K.B. ALLAH BAKHSH: No, Speak.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Sir, one of his pillars is gone. The other pillar (pointing to the Congress Benches), find of neuter gender. (Laughter). Had the Congress not been neutral, the fall of the Ministry was certain today. Therefore Government must realize that they cannot depend on these props. I do not know how the third dictator is behaving. If he is really with the Honorable the Chief Minster, I will call him the only faithful amongst the faithless.
Now, Sir, I will give his Honorable House another piece of advice which I had given them on the 18th March 1938. They then treated me with contempt, but my advice is as true today as it was when they brought about the fall of my Ministry on the 18th March 1938. I said : “ IF we suffer, it will be because deception might be practiced upon us, which is most ignoble. My friends the honorable members on the opposite side,” –(I was addressing the Honorable the present Chief Minister) “ought to realize that motions of this kind moved on flimsy grounds and in a light-hearted manner will recoil on them when they take our places here,” and they are recoiling on them today. Then continuing I said : “ They will become precedents and everybody will move such motions against them. I may tell my honorable friend that he is aspiring to come to these benches, but he must remember that cut motions for censure should not be played with so light-heartedly”. These remarks of mine are true today as regards the moving of the censure motion.
Again, Sir, I am placing my humble views today, before this Honorable House. Believe me, Sir, I am dying for the Interest of my Province of Sind, for which, at my own risk as a member of the Government of Bombay, I have fought battles against Government. Had I known this would be the fate, I would never have uttered a word.
Now, Sir, my Ministry was said to be bad. This Ministry is bad-so they say. I do not support these Minister, but I want from the honorable the mover of this support these Ministers, but I want from of this house a concrete and practicable scheme for working these reforms. We should not merely beat the air. If these Minister go who will come in their places? Is there any party which has a majority here? I may tell my honorable friends that my heart really burns for my Province. I want to ask: Is there a single party which can carry on this Government? What is the number of members in each party? Here are 10 members 16 or 18 and 10 or 12 there.
May I put a straight question to my honorable friends on the Congress Benches? They are as much responsible and as anxious as everyone of us in this House that we should do something for the poor masses of Sind. Will they have a coalition with the Muslim League? If they do so, that will come to 26, and fluid elements will come round, and they will be successful. Now I put them a straight question. If they want time, let them think it over. Every time there will be chaos. If this Ministry goes, some other Ministry will come, and they will also meet with same fate. Therefore, I am putting them a straight question. If they are the well-wishers of the poor masses, let them form a coalition. But if they do not want to form a coalition with the Muslim League, let them go and form a coalition with the Honorable the Chief Minister. Then, too , they will have a majority, and then we will be able to do some constructive work. Or I ask the honorable Hindu independent members of the House: Will they form a Coalition Ministry with the Muslim League or with the Congress? If they say “Yes,” and if they all combine and show me 30 or even 26 members, I am ready to vote against the Ministry, because I will then be certain that some Ministry has a majority and will be able to carry on the administration properly. Unless they have an absolute majority, they cannot do any work.
So, Sir, my request to this Honorable House is that we must seriously think of this question. We must put our heads together. I have not heard a reply to my specific question, “Will my honorable friends form a coalition with another party?” Silence means “No.” It is for the rest of the House to form a Ministry, otherwise there will be an absolute deadlock every now and then. Sir, unfortunately my community’s position is very bad. There is still time for the Mahomedans to combine and form a Ministry with others. I tried to combine them but failed. When the Honorable the Chief Minister and the Honorable the mover of the motion came to me, I received them with open arms, and what was my fate? Everyone knows it.
K. B. A. K. GABOL: They were offering prayers in your house.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Believe me, I am not feeling so much for the Ministry as for my community. They have established such a bad precedent by letting me down, and others will be afraid of joining them.
They pretended to say, Sir, that I was not carrying out their wishes. There is no one more responsible than myself. When I had the power you will also bear me out, to whatever they used to say, I said “Yes.” But they did not even give me breathing time. Hardly one month was given. Well, Sir, people were then whispering in my ears, but how could I believe that those who ate my salt would, the next morning vote against me? So, what I say to my friends, is this. Let them keep me out and I won’t mind. I can assure you as a gentleman, you may form your own Ministry amongst yourselves and form a coalition.
Now my suggestion is this. If any honorable members show me an alternative Ministry, I will vote them. What is the good of beating the air? We all run here and there. What is the good of going and saying, “Mr. Vazirani, we will together form a Ministry”? He will bring two or three. Another man will run to Rao Saheb Gokaldas or Dewan Dialmal, and then the Hindus will be divided, and the Muslims will also be divided and our Congress friends will remain mum.
Another alternative is, if the majority of the House want a dissolution of this Assembly, I will be prepared to join them.
Let us go back to the country, but I am doubtful if honorable members would agree. When I ask them to rise in their seats, none will stand up. At least, out of 25 from those benches, none will stand up.
I am talking of that side. No Governor is going to dissolve an Assembly unless the majority of the House wants dissolution.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: The majority of the Province do want.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Rise in your seats then. Let me see. I am with you. What is good of talking?
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I said the majority of the people of the Province.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: These are the only constitutional alternatives. I do not hear a single voice from there saying, “we want dissolution, we want to go back to the country.” Now, Sir, it is all very well to talk of breaking and making Ministries. But it is not mere destruction that we want, there should also be construction. What is the good of merely destroying everything? Even now, Sir, if he is not able to give me a Ministry today, but is able to find a majority in this House, I will vote with him.
Mr. JAMSHED NUSSERWANJEE: Honorable, Sir, may I make one request? I request my honorable friend Mr. Sayed even at this stage to withdraw his motion.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: It cannot be accepted.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The honorable member is not prepared.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Sir, I have not to make any big speech, but if I may, I would like to speak in Sindhi so that there may be no repetition.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Provided there is a request from the honorable members that you should speak in Sindhi.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: (In Sindhi) Sir, I had no intention to speak on this motion of no-confidence, but because something has been expressed against me, I feel it my duty to say a few words, At the outset I wish to remark that I am very sorry for the honorable members of the Opposition who have supported this no –confidence motion. They vehemently claim to be lovers of Muslim Unity. They shout for unity, but I am pained to say that whenever there is a chance of Muslim Unity they try to create friction amongst various Muslim Parties. They name one party as true Muslims. As for others, they say that they are not Muslims; they even go the length of calling them Kaffirs.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: I want to know whether any member of this Honorable House has used those words that those who are not with Muslim League are Kaffirs. I take strong exception to these words.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The honorable member will avoid those words.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: I do say that my friends there did utter those words, outside in the Muslim League.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: (Agitated) That is absolutely wrong.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Mere denial is enough.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: (In agitated tone) He is speaking lies.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable member cannot use the word “lies” and lose his temper and unnecessarily create heat. NO heat is to be introduced. He has to appeal to the Chair and not to use those words such as “lies” and other unparliamentarily words.
What is the Chair for?
The Honorable member should not repeat.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: (In Sindhi) Our friends get angry if they are told the truth. Truth is always bitter. I have only to say this much that whenever the question of unity amongst various Muslim parties comes. Effort are made to cause a rift between them. Read the Muslim newspapers. One party tries to defame the other party. I do not know whether Islam has taught them this. I do not think it an exaggeration to say that because we are not of the same principle and because we do not join Muslim League, we are dubbed ‘Kaffirs’. They dictate their own terms. And they say “Accept this principle or you are not a Muslims”. So many years have passed and we find Parliaments in various countries. Can any of my honorable friends quote even a single instance of all the men concentrating their thoughts on one particular matter? Never has it so happened. Examine our own Islam. There are various sections: there are Shiahs, there are Sunnis, etc. Everyone has got his own principles. It is incumbent on us that we should work together in the cause of our country and for the betterment of our nation. Does it look decent that a storm should be raised against us if we do not agree with their principles? Resolutions are passed that we are not Muslims, that the Muslims have no confidence in the present Ministry. I will say that whatever is expressed by honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussein is correct in every way.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: (In Sindhi) With whom you have proved yourself traitors!
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: (In Sindhi) I was wonderstruck at the manner in which honorable member Mr. Gazdar depicted his allegations. You all have heard the way in which he roused the feelings of the Muslims who were present in this Hall, against the present Mayor of Karachi who it is stated has written certain objectionable words. Even God forgives if an individual commits a sin.
The letter, that Mr. Hatim is forgiven, is signed even by the President of the Sind Muslim League, Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon. The honorable member Mr. G.M. Sayed has accepted that writ. The Mayor has clearly written that he should be forgiven. Ullemas have decided and it is after their decision that the book has been proscribed. Even when the matter has reached this stage, our friend gets up and says that the man has committed such a sin that even God ‘can-not’ forgive him. The order which had been issued to check the revolt firing at Chakiwara but he confined himself to his home on that day. What kind of principle is it? It is our duty to bring peace in the country. If such responsible persons propagate the germs of violence in this country, I cannot understand what their aim or object is in doing so. They Luari Haj has been banned. The order has already been issued and still our friend says that it is a lie. Newspaper write lies and their friends are liars. If we had remained silent like this friends of ours, many of the poor Muslims would have gone to jail and then we would have been called ‘Double Kaffirs’.
Mr. M. U. SOOMRO: (In Sindhi) On a point of information, Sir, the Honorable Minsiter has thrown light on the Alavi episode. Is it a fact that the Journal ‘Agge Kadam’ has been proscribed?
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: (In Sindhi) Yes it has been proscribed.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: (In Sindhi) I ask who has proscribed the Journal. It is proscribed by this Government or it is proscribed because of other reason? What action has been taken?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: (In Sindhi) We did not initiate the orders. We only repeated the same.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: When Honorable Minister stands to speak, it is natural that honorable members of this House will interrupt and raise points of order or points of information. But there should be a limit to this. Otherwise every now and then there will be interruptions, and we can make no progress. I would, therefore, request honorable members only to raise important points.
The Honorable PIR ILLAHI BAKHSH: Then the greatest fault that the honorable members of the Opposition have found with us- which honorable member K. B. Khuhro has at length dilated on and honorable member Mr. Gazdar has sufficiently commented upon –is that we have toured through every nook and corner of this country.
We have not committed any sin if we have gone on tour. There are many members present here who had brought deputations to me at Nawabshah when I had gone on tour for the second time, that the Honorable the Chief Minister should go personally and see the condition of crops affected by frost. The Honorable the Chief Minister should go personally and see the condition of crops affected by frost. The Honorable the Chief Minister was sick at that time and ordered me to see the condition personally.
Honorable members Rai Bahadur Hotchand, Seth Sitaldas and Seth Partabrai will bear me out. Can any instance be quoted when Members of Government do not tour? We do not want to be victims to the criticism that we intend to enjoy the sweet breezes of Karachi and that if persons from rural areas come here and bring their complaints we will look into the matter. But the point that requires our attention is that if we had not gone on tour, our friends would have said that ‘The Ministers are fond of sweet and cool breezes of Karachi.’ When I had gone on tour for the first time, honorable member Sayed Ghulam Murtaza Shah was with me and I was taking advice from him in each and every matter. I used to dispose of many applications on the spot. Honorable member K. B. Khuhro says that we drop letter to the Mukhtiarkar that men in his Taluka should be gathered to give petitions, but I would remind him that when I had gone on tour for the first time, honorable member K. B. Khahro had decided with the help of Muslim League that I may not get reception in Larkana District. Every possible attempt was made to ask men not to attend the meeting, but the same men, who were instructed not to attend, came and attended the meetings. What does it show? That our friends speak lies. ‘The curse of God awaits those who speaks lies’. He sees us all. Though the public is directed to boycott us, they come to meet us and we meet them. When the zamindars had met together as regards the assessment question, he was their President. He had declared in the meeting that he was the Secretary, and was on the side of the Government. He being part of Government himself at that time, could not express himself differently.
In the beginning when I had gone on tour, honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed was with me from Kotri and generally I was seeking advice from him. However if it is mentioned that no such advice was given by him. I can only say I am sorry. If we do as they advise, then also they say that whatever is done is wrong. I will repeat the words of honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain that if honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed finds that he has failed in one direction, he will run to another. He advises for two days continuously and on the third day he declares that he was not the originator of the advice. Whatever is expressed by the Honorable the Chief Minister or honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain is correct. They say that whatever is expressed by Mr. G. M. Sayed should be heard but not acted upon. It was said yesterday that we had taken undue advantage of our minister ships. Others say that we have taken undue advantage through officials. I am sure that no officials can say that we have taken undue advantage of him. I am prepared to produce the letters of honorable member K.B. Khuhro which he had written to officials asking them to show him consideration. If we have done anything, It is for the betterment of the country. We have disposed of many papers which are not for our personal gain, and we have done this only for the good of the country. Though we have done many things for the good of the poor, yet we are being accused that we have taken undue advantage. I would challenge the honorable members of Opposition to prove these allegations.
Then there is an accusation of corruption. These charges were that such and such man had taken to such and such area of land; water is given to such and such individual in excess. They will be answered by the Honorable the Leader of the House. I beg leave to state here that these are bogus statements. One can lower the position of even honorable men by bogus statements if they are taken for granted as facts. It is stated that less quantity of water is given to an individual while sufficient quantity of water is given to another man. Was that first man possessing any area of land? If taking water is crime, it will better for the Honorable the Chief Minister to sell his lands. I will quote the words with pride that Minister have done work for the members who have used dishonest ways and means. We have not purchased members. We work for public good. It is said that letters were dispatched from the Treasury Benches. We challenge all to prove even a single letter written to an official. It looks criminal to criticize without any cause or maliciously to attack an honorable man.
Again it was stated yesterday that an Inspector had been transferred and I had been the cause of his transfer. The Honorable the Leader of the House will throw light on this matter. One Inspector Khan Sahib Ghulam Akbar has remained here in Karachi for more than 5 years. Many persons have sent petitions against him. Many complaints have been received that he has been the cause of murders of certain respectable men.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, on a point of order. Can an Honorable Minster who is an in charge of the department make statements that a certain officer is guilty of committing murders and receiving bribes? And further I want to know whether Government had received complaints and any enquiries were made on them, whether any charge sheet, was given to the Inspector, and whether, even without a charge sheet, the Inspector was called upon to give explanations. In fact I go so far as to ask the Government whether they had ever conveyed to the Inspector even verbally that there were certain allegations against him. I want a reply from the Honorable the Chief Minister who is in charge of the department, because he will be in a position to give correct replies. I ask Government whether it is proper for a Minister to make allegations against a responsible officer who is still continuing in service.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Several petitions were received, making allegations against the Inspector for some time, and Government considered those petitions. Although they were anonymous, the General of Police investigated into the allegations which were found to be a false and therefore Government took no action against the Inspector.
The Honorable PIL ILLAHI BAKHSH: (In Sindhi) I am very sorry because I have disclosed matters which it would have been better if they had been concealed; but it was an allegation made against me and therefore I have done it.
Again, it has been said that the public has spent about 10 lakhs of rupees. Firstly, I must say that Government has not received one lakh applications, and , secondly, that even if it were so, on this one lakh applications ten lakhsh of rupees cannot have been spent. It is purely a question of calculation for a mathematician. How can those persons who have made applications come over to Karachi? That is also a kind of propaganda against us. I know that those applications were disposed of there and then. Many beneficial things have been done for the public. Even several abducted wives have been restored to their original husbands. If we had not gone on tour, the same friend might have said that the Ministers love the sweet breezes of Karachi and while away time like that. Whatever is expressed is not a fact but mere propaganda.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) Yes, Sir, I am concluding now. I think the Honorable the Chief Minister will give a reply to all the points quoted against him. I have mentioned those points only which it was difficult otherwise to disclose. Sir, we do our work with justice and righteousness. And I may be pardoned if I say that aim of the Opposition appears to be to break one Ministry and form another. I may tell them that they will not succeed in this aim.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: On a point of personal explanation, Sir, the Honorable Minister is making a misleading statement. He should prove what he is saying today by documentary evidence. In fact I was not president of the Zamindars Association nor have I uttered these words.
His another statement is false.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: You mean “Incorrect?”
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Yes, incorrect. It is incorrect to say that the Muslim League meeting was to have started at 5’oclock , but that people did not come because of the Revenue Minsiter’s arrival. In fact our time for the meeting was 7 p.m. and we did start the meeting immediately after sunset prayer and we had at least five to six thousand people attending it. My honorable friend Shaikh Sahib will bear me out.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The convention of the Parliamentary House is that when an allegation is made which affects the reputation or personal position of an honorable member and that honorable member denies it, the honorable member speaking should resist and not reply. That is the etiquette.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I rise on a point of order. I want to know whether it is proper for an Honorable Member of the Cabinet to make allegations against an Official of Government against whom they have never ordered an enquiry and from whom they have never asked for an explanation. Is it fair and right that on the floor of this Honorable House –without calling for his explanation, without making any allegation against him and without giving him any charge sheet incorporating all these allegations that he has got murders committed and decoities committed –the Honorable Minister should make these allegations?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, there is no doubt that there are complaints against the Inspector in question. Unfortunately it so happened that Government also have received certain complaints that the Inspector was not good moral character. He had a week character and that his company –I know my honorable friend is his friend… …
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: So are you.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I hope he will not mind because he has challenged the allegations made by my Honorable Colleague. These allegations were enquired into and it was found that there was no truth in those allegations. My honorable friend has stated yesterday that perhaps he was a spy or was not useful to the Ministry, and therefore he was transferred. My colleague has said that certain allegations were made against the man. If those allegations would have been proved, he would have been proved, he would certainly have been challenged.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: So are you.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I hope he will not mind because he has challenged the allegations made by my Honorable Colleague. These allegations were enquired into and it was found that there was no truth in those allegations. My honorable friend has stated yesterday that perhaps he was spy or was not useful to he Ministry, and therefore he was transferred. My colleague has said that certain allegations were made against the man. If those allegations would have been proved, he would certainly have been challenged.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Was he given a chance to explain?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: You cannot ask any question. This is a point of order. If the honorable member had risen on a point of information he would have asked that, but he knew that the Honorable Minister would not yield and therefore he rose on a point of order.
I think this is a point which ought to be considered whether the name of particular officers should be disclosed for the purpose of debate or not. I am very specific about that. But as far as my memory goes , my experience in the Bombay Council is and possibly there were certain rulings which emanated from the Chair, that he names of officers should not be introduced in the debate unless it was absolutely necessary or when it was insisted upon that the names of the officers should be disclosed. I myself involved in one such instance when I had made allegations against and Executive Engineer. They insisted that I should disclose his name. I disclosed his name with the result that Executive Engineer suffered. But the President gave a ruling that names should be disclosed because that officer is not before the House to defend himself. It is more for the Government . Unless a member raises an objection and insists on the disclosure of the name of an officer, his name should not be disclosed. Certain procedure must be observed, and I request the Honorable Minister also not to give names. Of course he did it in reply and when he was challenged by the Honorable member. It is his right to do so. But it is advisable that he should not indulge in disclosing the names of officers because it is the Government who should object to the disclosure of names. I only just give advice. No ruling is given. It is a etiquette which ought to be observed by the honorable members in future.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: Sir, I rise on a point of information.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The point has been disposed off.
Mr. M. H. GAZDAR: I want to know whether he telephoned him.
THE Honorable THE SPEAKER: No, I won’t allow that.
Mr. J. FRASER: Sir, I rise to oppose the motion, and in order to remove any misunderstanding which might be likely to arise on account of what I have to say, I think it very necessary that the attitude of European Group should be made perfectly clear. It has on more than one occasion been expressed by the Honorable has no more than one occasion been expressed by the honorable member. Col. Mahon, and, broadly speaking it is this, that “so long as any Government endeavors to legislate for the Good of the Province as a whole, without racial or communal bias, so long will they be entitled to claim our support”. I would, however, like to amplify this for time and again it has been stated in various quarters that the vote of the European Group can be taken for granted, and that they went must support the Government. I beg to say that that is entirely erroneous, and I would like emphasize that the support of the European Group must not be taken for granted under all circumstances. We do not admit that to evince an interest in the Province and the welfare of its people is the monopoly of any party or group, as some would have us believe.
Sir, each European member possesses the same responsibilities and the same duties as every other member of this Honorable House, and if we are to exercise those responsibilities and fulfill our duties then we cannot remain indifferent to what is taking place around us, nor can we remain passive, nor neutral.
I listened with the greater interest to the indictment of the Government by the honorable members Khan Bahadur Khuhro and Mr. G.M. Sayed, and I must confess that I am amazed to gather there from that any one man could have succeeded in omitting to do so many things in such a short time as the Honorable the Chief Minister. I find it more congenial to mention some things which he has done. We are agreed that last session he caused to be passed into law a number of bills. True, the Opposition claim the parentage of bills, that they were conceived by them. Of that I am not sure, but even if their parentage be disputed, we do know that it was the present Government who, as foster parents, took charge of the orphans set them on their feet, and saw them safely through the Assembly.
Early in July last year, the Honorable the Chief Minister took a very important decision with regard to reassessment proposals and reclassification of lands. Lacking actual experience, I am quite sure the honorable members of this House will not expect me to dilate on this question, nor do I wish to, but I would like to make one observation. To me, the principle of linking reassessment with the change of price level of Cotton, and reclassifying certain lands which have benefited by the Barrage, so that they should contribute to the expense of that scheme, appears both reasonable and fair. By showing his determination not to waver on this point; the Honorable the Chief Minister has raised high in my estimation. For over six months he has been harassed, intimidated and threatened, even deserted by some of those whom he relied upon as his supporters, but he was firm in his determination that it was in the interests of the Province. We have heard his action characterized as obstinate. To me his action was resolute, by the decision to shoulder his responsibilities and refuse to suffer further humiliation by continued subservience to a minority group, who enjoy the exercise of power but refuse to accept the responsibilities of Office. Had the Honorable the Chief Minister given way on this issue, he could have been rightly accused of forfeiting confidence, by submitting to the dictation and domination of a minority group as the price of his remaining in office, but he stood firm and this alone justifies complete confidence in him. I do not seek to bind my honorable colleagues to these opinions, but I repeat his action has placed him high in my estimation.
I now have a few words to say about the Opposition party as it is today. I think the honorable member khan Bahadur Khuhro stated that in a free country like Britain the Prime Minister always consulted his Party and was bound by their decision. I stand to be corrected, but that is what I gathered from the honorable member’s speech. I would like to quote an authority on the “Government of England” by Lawrence Lowell. May I quote, Sir?
“The Front bench thus the work of a party council or committee and in neither of the great
Parties is there anything resembling a general caucus for the discussion and determination of
Party policy. Sometimes a great meeting of adherents of the Party in Parliaments is called at one
Of the political clubs or elsewhere when the leaders address their followers. But it is held to
Exhort, not to consult ; and in fact, surprise is sometimes expressed by private members that the
Chiefs take them so little into their confidence. When appointed, the leader leads, and the party
That is the position of party politics in Britain.
The honorable member also complained that the Honorable the Chief Minister was too fond of his Scottish officer, they were his favorites, etc. Then he made the extraordinary statement that it was because they spend 67% of Sind’s Revenues. It may be true, but this is the first time I ever heard of Scotsmen being accused of spending money. Another indictment of the Government was that they had promised, or are alleged to have promised, to work at “Aero plane Speed” and because they have not done so , they forfeited confidence. May I suggest, ( and I am sure all honorable members will agree with me) that customs in this Province die very slowly, and instead of moving at “Aero plan Speed” we have always been accustomed to the more dignified, if leisurely, pace of the camel?
Now, Sir, I would like to make an observation on the remarks of the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed, and I am only doing this because I have resided in Sind for the past 20 years, and next to the land of my birth, it is the place I like best, hence my interest. The honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed, the mover of the no-confidence motion, confess that he was instrumental in assisting the previous Government to their defeat, and in installing the present one, and in less than ten months he tries to get rid of it also. In anticipation of his success, he got rid of the Honorable the Leader of the Opposition, he realized his mistake efforts he still asks us to support his no-confidence motion. How can that be?
Sir, I am not concerned with which Ministry is in office. Whoever they may be I presume to tender some advice, that is to study our own problems, the problems affecting our Province I Don’t be content to follow at the tails of this or that Province and rest content. Look to what we have to do for ourselves, for if I may quote English proverb, ( it may an Indian Proverb too) “When is one man’s meat, is another man’s poison.” Concentrate on our own special interests, for instance, the problems connected with the financial aspects of the Barrage, which are of such magnitude as to exercise the minds of any Government for years to come. And if we cherish the hope to receive any remission of our debt, we must not only rely on the merits of our case, but the convince the central Government that we can provide and maintain a stable Government.
Finally may I suggest what might be useful major problems for the Ministry to consider during the next three years, that is if they get the co-operations which they would be entitled to? Firstly, I would suggest the appointment of a Minister for Agriculture and Irrigation. The whole life-blood of the Province depends upon Agriculture, and the Minister should not be saddled with other portfolios, but should be free to devote his sole attention to this all important subject. Something is being done at present I know, but that is not enough. Secondly, the Development of Fisheries. It is no use having a man on about Rs. 150/- a month to dabble in this important work. Get an expert from outside, say Madras, and pay him his Rs. 700/- to RS. 900/- and get real benefit from his advice, nor merely on the question of storing or exporting tons of fish to other parts, but also to make the best use of the valuable by-products, fertilizers, etc, so that the lands needs never be impoverished.
Thirdly, an Agricultural College not solely for the conferring of degrees on the sons of Zamindars, but to teach them how to be practical farmers, in order to get the best out of their lands. Then, Sir, some security in the land for the peasant, the hari. It is not much they want, their needs are small. But something should be done to improve their lot, not at the expense of the Zamnidars, but by settlement.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Is the honorable member going to take long? It is tea time now.
Mr. J. FRASER: No, Sir, only two minutes more. Could the Government do what many democratic countries are doing and assist in the marketing of the produce and assure a minimum price to the Zamindars and the hari?
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: The ratio must be reduced.
Mr. J. FRASER: My last point is to make a new scrutiny of the Barrage debt, having regard to the facts and not the imaginary figures on which it was based, with a view to its possible reduction in accordance with the principles of the Niemeyer Report. Government must be given a fair chance to work at those problems. I, therefore, oppose the motion of no-confidence.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The House will now rise for tea till 5 minutes past 5.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Sir, I only wish to submit that previously I have spoken in English and I have also tried to speak in Urdu with the view that the European members may be in a position to understand the sum and substance of what I had to say. Although on occasions I have spoken in Sindhi also, it was once explained that if speeches were made by me in Urdu, then the European members could understand me. I have no objection to speaking in Urdu.
Miss JETHIBAI T. SIPAHIMALANI: We won’t be able to follow him then.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Honorable members may know that if a member is proficient in English, it is compulsory for him to speak in English, because the proceedings, according to the Government is also proficient in some other language and if it is the desire of the House that he should speak in that other language, then I will allow him to speak in that other language.
Lt. Col. W. B. HOSSACK: We have no objection if he speaks in Urdu.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The honorable member might proceed in Urdu.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: (In Urdu) May I request you, Sir, that there should be no laughter in the gallery?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: There is too much noise in the gallery. If I mark anyone making noise, I am sorry I will be compelled to eject him. They are there in the gallery by courtesy. They must observe the decorum required of them. As the honorable member has raised the point, I will make a note of it.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: (Continued In Urdu)
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: ( In Sindhi) I had no intention to speak up to now; but the aggressive way in which the honorable member of the Opposition have attacked the Ministry compels me to say a few words in reply. One Honorable member went so far as to use the words ‘Beat him’ for honorable Pir Illahi Bakhsh. Honorable member SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID used these words.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: (In Sindhi) I never said so.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER(In Sindhi) : The honorable member has not used these words.
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: ( In Sindhi) The result of this no-confidence motion will not be good. Truly has it been said that ‘Haste is waste’. If our friend actually feels for his country, it was folly on his part to have taken such a hasty step against the Ministry of honorable Sir Ghulam Hussain. There was meaning in it. Honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed would have thought that with the fall of Sir Ghulam Hussain Ministry, there was possibility of his getting into the aero plane and that is why the aero plane speed was required.
After bringing about the downfall of that Ministry, Shah Sahib waited for two or three days. He is going back to his old hasty step.
I heard the speech delivered by honorable member K. B. Khuhro. He expressed great sorrow. I would have congratulate him if he had been sincere in his expression. Now I can-not congratulate him because he must be remembering that when he used to sit on the Treasury Benches, the Tobacco Bill was introduced by Government. He, at that time, delivered a long speech, advocating a suicidal step that the poor would not benefit by two rupees. The speech delivered by him in connection with Zamindars is also known to the Honorable members.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: ( In Sindhi) Whatever is said by the honorable member about me is incorrect. If he says anything about me now, he will have to produce evidence.
THE Honorable THE SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) Drop that matter. The procedure is that the matter, which is contradicted, should not be repeated.
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: ( In Sindhi)It seems that the honorable member was not considering the betterment of the public, when he was in power. It is evident what he really feels now.
The honorable member has attacked the Congress party that they are remaining neutral on the no –confidence motion. I would point out that they have got every reason to remain neutral because majority. A short time back, Dr. Choithram was dreaming of the post of the Chief Minister.
Dr. CHOITRAM P. GIDWANI: I totally deny it.
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: ( In Sindhi) Our friends have expressed that our Hindu brethren remain silent. This complaint of theirs is useless. They have seen the downfall of one Ministry and now they support their own party. I am very sorry for honorable member Mr. Gazdar who is not present here and who has gone to the sacred place.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) The Honorable member should not say anything about the member who is not present.
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: ( In Sindhi) Even that which the honorable members want to clear?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) Yes. That is the rule.
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: ( In Sindhi) Again Honorable Pir Sahib has been criticized that he has done nothing for Sind. I dare say that members are responsible for creating the feeling that this Ministry should be broken and a Muslim League Ministry should be brought into being. We have clearly said that if honorable members of the Opposition intend to bring in a Muslim League Ministry, they may by all means do so. But when no one from us has got sympathy with the League, therefore. . . .
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) Only a short time remains for the honorable member to finish.
K. S. SARDAR JAFFERKHAN BURDI: (In Sindhi) Yes, Sir, therefore, the question is that though honorable member Shaikh Sahib has spoken sincerely, I am sorry for that his speech showed only agitation and violence, so that it has had no effect on the mind of any one. He has attacked each and every member. But Shaikh Sahib himself has never felt about it. What will be the result if Shaikh Sahib votes for the no –confidence motion? If he feels for the Public, I would advise him to think well before voting. The way in which honorable member, Sir Ghulam Hussain, delivered his speech, appealed to me the most. As if Chamberlain or Colonel Franco was speaking ! His was an excellent speech. I will request the honorable member SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID not to attack the Honorable the Chief Minister in the way in which he did today.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Now, the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed to make a reply.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Will the Honorable the Chief Minister speaks afterwards? I have not heard him, so how can I make a reply?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: I cannot compel the Honorable the Chief Minister to speak. His right to comes after the mover.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir, this is quite unfair.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: I can’t help it. This is in accordance with the rules.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: If the Honorable the Chief Minister does not reply, then I say he has got no case.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Sir, here it is quite an anomalous position because the motion is against the person of Honorable Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh. He has not spoken up to this time during the last 3 days. Therefore, the honorable mover of the motion has no opportunity to give a reply in proper manner. All other people have spoken except the Honorable the Chief Minister.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: He does not reply. I cannot force him.
THE Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, whatever charges have been leveled against the Ministry, the Ministry in-charge will reply to those charges and then if the honorable member is satisfied, it is left to him to withdraw the motion; otherwise he can ask for a division and then it is for the House and not for him to decide our fate. I have to give my reply not to the honorable the mover of the motion but to the House as a whole. (After a pause) The Honorable member may proceed.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir it is dictatorial tone of the Honorable the Chief Minister. It is not fair that he should ask me to proceed. What is he that he should say that I should proceed? It is you, Sir, who have a right to say that I should proceed.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, I am Sorry if I said anything to hurt the honorable member.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: That was not right on the part of the Honorable the Leader of the House. The Honorable member might proceed now to give a reply.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: (In Sindhi) Sir, the no –confidence motion prepared by me has thoroughly been discussed by both the parties. I am very sorry that I am not aware of the opinion of the man against whom I have brought this motion; but as the procedure of the House, as ordered by you, is that the Leader of the House cannot be compelled to speak in response till all the members have finished their speeches, I feel myself bound to wind up the debate.
In this House, Cabinet Members are responsible for Government Benches. Honorable Minister Mr. Nihchaldas gave a reply to some extent. He discussed many points wherein he tried to show that he had done this and he had done that. He has advocated the cause of Government to a great extent. I have noted all his points, but if I reply to each and every one of them, it will be a lengthy story. I do not find even a single act of importance done by them. I do admit that there are certain actions of the Government which deserves credit, but when Sind was under Bombay Government then also we used to witness even more beneficial measures for the country. I do not think that the work claimed to have been done by Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas deserves any credit. It is like the head-munshi who after showing 5-8 works, speaks of his excellence before his superiors and begs for promotion. That is an old way. But in the present times when we see that other countries bring reforms so rapidly, we do not find even a single step taken by our Government towards reforms. An ordinary matter, that 5 adult schools have been opened, has been expressed with so much pride which, according to me, is not worthy of the honor of Government to do so.
Now I come to the most important question that of land assessment. Our honorable Minister says that objections will be invited on the land assessment question and it is only after that the decision will be arrived at.
This important question of assessment has got two sides: that the assessment be increased and that the scales should not be fixed as proposed. If the Ministers think it reasonable they may increase the assessment; but what I object to, is the way in which they are increased, the way in which the house and the parties are hoodwinked. Except the European members, who like these proposals because the zamindars are taxed thereby, the members sitting on the Government Benches have not been told that these proposals will be changed. But I ask: Have these proposals been decided according to the level at which Honorable Pir Illahi Bakhsh has addressed ; these are the matters of party-system which I do not take interest in, because we must speak on a high level. I agree with the honorable member Mr. Jamshed. He always gives sound opinions and there is sincerity in them. We, both of us, intend to achieve the same object; we have got the same goal in view. His belief is like that of a pessimist or may I say his belief is saintly one? i.e., he believes in the theory that one should not leap in the dark. This not a new theory. All the orthodox and pessimist have taken until and unless one knows the details of one’s future course. I believe in the theory of revolution.
I have got blind faith in change. I do not care for the result, but I feel it my duty to bring revolution in what is bad for our country. I have never thought about the future; I will never think about it because I believe in the theory advocated by Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal.
Jump in the river; play with its waves; pleasure lies in playing with the waves. There may be many members whose opinion might differ. Even judges differ in Court though they hear the same case with unprejudiced minds. Let any members’ opinion vary, but in my humble opinion no one has got the right of saying that whatever is done by me is with an evil intention. In my view, I am doing right and nothing but right. Others say that my intention is to break Ministries after every 12 months but I say that I don’t care for the making or breaking of Ministries. I don’t mind breaking Ministries after every month if it is for the betterment of this country.
K. B. A. K. GABOL: Sir, I rise to a point of order. The honorable member must reply to the debate. He is making a fresh speech.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The charge leveled by several honorable member is that he is a breaker of Ministries, that he wants to play with Ministries, set up one Ministry against another. He is explaining his theory with regard to that. I hope the honorable member will be brief in his reply.
Mr. G. M.SAYED: I have to reply to all honorable members. This is a big theory. Everywhere and the press of late, and members have criticized me that I am chiefly responsible for breaking Ministries.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The honorable member should not care for press opinion. He should be brief in his reply.
Mr. G. M.SAYED: (In Sindhi) Sir, I am of the opinion that all the reforms that we have got at present are incomplete. They require a master-touch. Our country is in a state of ignorance. Public opinion has not yet been created amongst the masses; in the absence of public opinion, we find a majority of ambitious members. No hope can be sustained in the present elected lot. They know that public opinion has not yet seen its birth in this country. But, Sir, we see that the more the members grow ambitious, the more serious are the charges leveled against them. They change their parties every day. Under these circumstances any stable Ministry will be a curse for the country; because the Ministry which has got no solid backing of a definite party, the Ministry which does not care to think of the Public good, the Ministry which does not care to think of the Public good, the Ministry which crushes the public opinion in order that a slavish mentality should be created in us, will bring nothing but destruction of the country; I will be the first person to oppose such a Ministry. I like a stable Ministry like that of Congress Provinces which has got certain fixed principles, which crushes the public opinion in order that a slavish mentality should be created in us, will bring nothing but destruction of the country; I will be the first person to oppose such a Ministry. I like a stable Ministry like that of Congress Provinces which has got certain fixed principles, which acts on a definite program, which possesses the sense of discipline. Such Ministry is most welcome. But, if any Ministry makes itself stable by greasing the palm of certain members, no good can be expected from it, and I will be the last person give it rest. Let all the persons lay charges against me that my ideas will bring destruction to the country or that my intention is to worsen the condition of this country, I am prepared to welcome such a charge. Sir, honorable member Mr. Jamshed has expressed that we must think for the future; we must keep ourselves vigilant for the times to come. I do admit that; but if we find fault with the present state of affairs, we must bring a rapid change, we must create a revolution. There are two methods by which peace in a country can be brought. One group says that arms should be done away with; they should be reduced; the nations will then fear each other; they will fear destruction and compulsorily peace will prevail in the country. Struggle always awakens a country. If struggle resigns in this country, then public opinion will be created and the persons residing in villages will come to know the present condition of the country; they will be compelled to understand the course that politics take and, after that, when new elections come, public opinion will sufficiently be created and many hopes can be entertained of the new elected group that comes out successful after a keen struggle. The members that get themselves elected after public opinion has been created will realize their responsibility and this realization, I am definite, will prove a boon for this country. The same member who blames me now, will openly say then, that I will most welcome any party in power because I am sure that there will be discipline in it. I think myself to be a servant of the country; The same member who blame me now, will openly say then, that the elected parties have definite principles. It will be then alone that I will most welcome any party in power because I am sure that there will be discipline in it. I think myself to be a servant of the country; I feel for it; because of that feeling, I feel myself answerable to the call of the poor. A pain stricken heart feels for pain-stricken hearts. I am much grieved when I brood over the sorrows and difficulties that beset our country. That feeling compels me to place a standard of service for the Ministry. I am of the opinion that an ideal pro gramme be formed and placed before the country. Help maybe extended to them who act according to it, while opposition should be made to that man who does not care for the same. Sir, I will request you to allow me to speak for more time. I have risen at 6 p.m. and I will complete my speech at 6-30 p.m.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: (In Sindhi) Honorable member may speak for that time.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: (In Sindhi) Honorable member Khan Sahib Sardar JafferKhan Burdi is a friend of mine and I have got respect for him. I do not want to say anything in reply to whatever he has expressed because I do realize that I am a human being and there may be drawbacks in me, but I am prepared to drive my shortcomings away if my friends point out the same to me. I think it fit to answer one point of his and it is this. He says that in the present times a storm reigns over Sind which must be put an end to. My humble submission is that our whole life is full of storms. A silent life is of no use Truly it has been said by a Persian poet :-
I have complete faith in it. That country will never open its eyes whose people are dormant and silent. Progress can come only when the particles of revolution are created in the hearts of all residents of a country. I have read in the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi that a minority can also rule a country of its members are vigilant and worthy. Every one is a master of his own opinions, but if the people use the benevolent influence, it will be useful for the betterment of the country. I assure you there is no evil intention in the doings of those people. Sir, it has been expressed by the Ministerial Benches that I have not come forward with any definite allegations against the Ministry; it should not the presumed from this that I posses no material or that whatever has been expressed by the honorable members to support me is wrong. They have spoken the truth. I am prepared to disclose the names of those officers to whom honorable member Mr. Gazdar has referred in his speech, but the question is person, how can he make an enquiry? Therefore it is better that an independent committee be appointed to make investigations, and I will subsequently disclose the names. The Collector of Thar Parkar, the Collector of Sukkur, Sub Judges and the Manager, Encumbered Estates, have been used as instruments for help to Government. Officers were directed by wires to send some members to Karachi at the time of Sardar Patel’s visit in Sind. We have got that material with ourselves, but I do not think it proper to bring in these petty things against those friends with whom I have lived up to the present and who have remained my best friends. But this is a matter of principle. Public mentality is worsened; the germs of slavery have been created. If I propose this vote of no-confidence, it is on that principle only.
(In English) There is too much noise, Sir.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: There is too much noise on this (left) side of the House. Ordinary courtesy requires that the honorable member should be heard. He is the mover of the motion.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: (In Sindhi) In the end I would urge that nothing will come from more conversations. The betterment of the country will not come through conversations but it will come through deeds and actions. The Ministry should have a definite program to carry out. If the honorable Ministries act on a definite principle, if they act as the House intends, in connection with assessment, if they give weight to public opinion, I tell my friends that I will be the first person to co-operate with them. If they desire that the country should be ruled with the help of violence and force, I will never agree with their ideas. I do not care for the failure or success of my no-confidence motion; but I will advise the Honorable the Chief Minister to work on certain principles; it is better for him; it will bring success for him.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, I express my deep gratitude to the honorable the mover of this Resolution. Whether the Resolution is carried or defeated, it has provided an opportunity to both sides to clear their position.
Sir, I was rather at a loss to understand the honorable the mover of this Resolution while he was making his reply. In the beginning he told the House that his object was to break the Ministry, if possible, every month, and even, if possible, to get the Assembly dissolved because he believes that it is fundamentally good for this province to make frequent changes with a view to ultimately getting stability. Then in the end he says that if the Chief Minister accepts the Congress proposal, namely, to postpone the assessment question, he would be prepared to support that program and policy. Well, Sir, there are these two inconsistencies. I can assure the honorable members that I have nothing against me. Socially we shall both remain friends. But I think our political views are so very different from each other that it will be impossible for us to come together upon the same platform. Had I known the true policy of the honorable the mover in the beginning and that he wanted a change of Ministry every three months, I would have been the last person to have come with his support on the Treasury Benches.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Hear, hear.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: And, Sir, the words which the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain said to me at that time are coming out to be true.
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: Hear, hear.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: And I admire the honorable the mover of this Resolution that he has made no secret about it.
Now, Sir, I would first like to regret to the last two speakers: the honorable member SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID and the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain. The honorable member SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID got up and read out a statement. He said “Here are your Ministers who, when they come to see MR. Jinnah, agreed to vacate office, but ultimately did not fulfill their promise. They have no right to sit on the Treasury Benches.” Perfectly right, Sir, if that was the true position. In fairness to the Minister, he should have narrated the whole story so that I should have saved my time in replying to my honorable friend Shaikh Sahib.
Sir, when I went to see Mr. Jinnah he told me that it would be desirable that the Muslims should come together and that there should be a League Ministry. My reply to Mr. Jinnah was that apart from any communal considerations, it would be impossible to have a League Ministry in Sind, because quite apart from the principle whether there should or should not be a Communal Ministry, I thought that, from the point of view of practical politics, that would not be possible. There are 33 Muslim members in this House excluding yourself, Sir, who are the speaker, and my honorable Muslim friend occupying the Congress Benches.
K. B. A. K. GABOL: One in myself (Laughter).
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Considering that there are 33 members, if at any time 4 or 5 members deserted the Ministry and joined the Congress or the Hindus, the whole balance would be upset. If the Congress had any reason to fear that there was going to be a purely Muslim League Ministry, they would have without much ado struck a bargain with the Hindu Independent Group rather than have allowed the League Ministry to exist. The Hindus being in a minority, it would have been their fundamental duty to see that the League Ministry was thrown out in the interests of the minority community. I made that position very clear to Mr. Jinnah. He told me in reply that he had no intention or desire to exclude the Hindus; on the contrary he was anxious to have the good wishes of the minority groups as well; but in any case, if 32 Mahomedans joined, there was going to be no difficulty about it. He further said that, if the Mahomedans remained solid, the Hindus ultimately were bound to join them. So what the honorable member has stated is perfectly true, and I am not going to deny it. But, Sir, the condition precedent to that agreement was that 32 Muslims should join the party and at time we were able to count only 26 Muslims. They were not able even to make out at that time whether these 6 absentees belonged to the League party to the Ministerial party. So the solution that was hit upon, as being the best way out of the ‘impasse’, was that telegrams were to be sent to the absentee member over the signatures of Sir Ghulam Hussain and myself –the fundamental principle being, as I have just said, that all the 32 members should unite, and attempts were thus made to bring about this result. It cannot be denied, Sir, that I had made the position very clear to Mr. Jinnah that in the event of all the 32 members uniting, I would not accept office. I made this decision and made it known to all concerned, because I thought that it would be impossible for any man to carry on the administration with such precarious support. Mr. Jinnah persuaded me to reconsider my decision and said that my attitude was not right, but I was unable to do so and adhered to my views. I never said that I would accept office. Having made that position clear, the question arose as to who should succeed me in the event of my not accepting office. They had decided that the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain should not become the Chief Minister.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: That was long after that.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: The honorable member says “long after that”. May I bring to the mind of the honorable member a conversation which we had under a tree in the compound of the House where Mr. Jinnah was present? He will remember that he (the honorable member) distinctly told me that it would not be desirable that I should join the League, and I was under no circumstances to bring in Sir Ghulam Hussain!
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The honorable member denies it.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: May I know whether the honorable member really denies it?
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir, I said only these words to the Honorable the Chief Minister when he signed and came out. I told him that I had no personal grudge against him and as he had done a work of sacrifice, therefore, that on account of this act of his; in future I was not going against him. I am sure the Pir Sahib will bear me out. Sir that was the real position at that time. So the question of the Ministers having backed out of that agreement does not arise. A further sidelight will reveal some of the other goings –on at the time. While we were all gathered at the bungalow of Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon one evening, and while the negotiation was still going on in Separate room, Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon comes to me and says: “I congratulate you. Everything is decided”. I was quite taken aback and that you will continue to be the Chief Minister”. I was so surprised at his words and at his apparent attempt to commit me to a condition to which I had never agreed that I said: “Haji Sahib, look here this is a thing which should be decided by the Party. I have never said that if you agree to my being the Chief Minister, I would be prepared to continue in office”.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir, he did say so.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: No contradiction. The Honorable Minister may proceed.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, if the honorable member insists, I shall produce the document.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: No.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: There are 20 members behind me who will support me.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: No interruption please. I call upon the Honorable Leader of the House to proceed.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Then, Sir that belies the fact that Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon came to me in the same evening. If I had agreed to be the Chief Minister and they also had agreed, then why did I not join them?
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Because you wanted to remain for 3 years.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: That is not correct I make it further clear that Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon came…………….
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Is it such a very important point on which the Honorable the Leader of the House wants to dilate so much?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Yes, Sir. If they say that the Ministers backed out of certain agreements, then I have certainly to prove that they are wrong.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Why from certain agreements?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I am explaining all the agreements.
Then, Sir, Khan Bahadur Gormani came to me and I enquired of him about this and said: “Gormani, what is this?” He in reply said “Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon brought to us a message that you wanted to be the Chief Minister and that Mr. Jinnah had ultimately agreed”. I immediately told him that I had never said so. He reiterated that Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon had brought such a message.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: You said that in the whole meeting.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Then Khan Bahadur Gormani went back and told Haji Abdullah Haroon that I denied that I had made any such statement that I wanted to be the Chief Minister. Sir, Khan Bahadur Gormani himself narrated to me later that they had called Sir Haji Abdullah Haroon and confronted him with these conflicting versions, whereupon Haji Sahib admitted that I had not told him any such thing, but he had formed that impression because of certain things he had heard from his office people.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: How many promises have you broken?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I am coming to all those promises which I am supposed to have broken. . . . . .
Now, I must reply to my honorable friend SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID. He told us that there was no desire whatsoever to create a League Ministry; and he said that he was, on the contrary, fully prepared to advise me either to form a coalition with the Congress or to bring some other groups together so as to have stability. I might straightaway inform the House that that was not the position which the Muslim League took in the beginning and you, Sir, know very well that the position at that time was entirely different. Their idea was to form a League Ministry and that is what I did not like; and I think I may say that I have rendered a signal service to this Province by not joining the League. It is a very good thing that the Muslim League has failed in this Province and I wish it would further fail.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Question. You will be compelled to join the League.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I would prefer to die rather than join the League. (Hear, hear)
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Unity.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, what is that unity? Can you call that unity? That term would be an absolute misnomer –members were being asked to join the League under coercion!
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: No interruption.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, it is really most painful that an organization like the Muslim League should coerce the members and compel them to join the League. Then how can it be said that such an organization could be in the best interests of either the Province or the community? They wanted me to join the Muslim League under coercion. First of all, the aims, objects and principle of the League are not hidden from any honorable member of this House. The League came into prominence in Sind after Sir Ghulam Hussain’s Ministry went out. The object of the League was to throw out the present Ministry. I would not have minded going out but for the present Ministry. I would not have minded going out but for the fact that they made heavy preparations for the arrival of Mr. Jinnah. Arrangements were made to picket the houses of the Ministers, but eventually they were advised not to do that. They spoke on the platform in the most irresponsible manner. Not content with that, they even went to the length of hatching a plot to get the Ministers killed. If the honorable members so wish, I am perfectly prepared to divulge the secret of it.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: What is that?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: No interruption.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, I am going to tell the House how and in what manner they practiced coercion. I am going to give the whole account. I was prepared to go to any length rather than succumb to the vicious influence of the League. What happened? One of the prominent members of the League. . . . .
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: That is not going to help you.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: One of the prominent members of the League and who has the distinction of being an honorable member of this House went to one of my dear friends and said to him. “We are going to establish here a communal Ministry under any circumstance”.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Question.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, I am merely giving out the message as it was given to my friend by no less a person than a responsible member of this Assembly.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Who is he?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I am going to you his name. Sir, he went and said to my friend and I might repeat the almost identical words that he used: “As you are thick friend of Allah Bakhsh, I have come to tell you that if he (meaning myself) does not join the League, he is bound to be killed”. The reply that he received from my friend was “You know Allah Bakhsh” –and these are the very words that he used –“You know Allah Bakhsh. Once he makes up his mind, he will not change. He is obstinate and no useful purpose will be served by my giving him any advice.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, if he wishes that I should give him names, I shall do so. I referred to the honorable member Mr. Gazdar who went and spoke to my friend Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto. I can go further.
K. B. M. A KHUHRO: A point of order. In first place neither is Mr. Gazdar present here, nor was Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto present at Karachi during the League meeting. Therefore, the point is whether these allegations can be made.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The second part is a matter of fact and the first part makes reference to the legal issue whether any reference can be made to an honorable member who is absent. If the honorable member insists on a ruling I shall give one. It will only complicate matters. The honorable member should support or confirm his statement on his own responsibility.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I am prepared to mention any other member if he so desires. Sir, may I enquire of them of the League has any well-defined principles? I, for one, could not see that the League could boast of any cut-and-dried principles and accordingly I was not prepared to attach importance to the League. The merits of an association or institution have to be adjusted from the persons who conduct it. If the intentions of our local Leaguers were honest, I am sure my friend Sir Ghulam Hussain would not have resigned from the League. He knew what was at the bottom of the show. The game was to capture offices and nothing else. When Sardar Patel and Moulana Abul Kalam Azad were here at Karachi, we and several honorable members of this House went and saw them. I am not going to accuse the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain. An interesting question was asked by Sardar Patel, or perhaps by Moulana Abul Kalam Azad –I don’t exactly remember by whom –whether, in the event of a coalition Ministry being formed, would you be prepared to accept the policy and program of the Congress and sign the Congress pledge and so on and so forth?
Mr. G. M. SAYED: A point of explanations, Sir. The Honorable the Chief Minister says: Moulana Abul Kalam Azad asked, if the Congress accepted Ministry, will we be able to sign the Congress pledge and remain under Congress discipline? He never said that. Now, again and again he made it known to us that the Congress was not going to accept office. Then he said “Are you going to accept the Hussain said if the Congress remained out, then he would consult all our members, and not if a coalition was formed, and that then the problem would be discussed with the party. If they did come in for coalition it was different.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The honorable member’s name was not disclosed by the Honorable Leader of the House.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: I can go further than that. If he has not made any personal reference. . . . . . . .
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: No interruptions please. The fact is that actually more than 20 members of this Honorable House were present there. If one’s memory is so short, I cannot help that. The honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain said “No” and I think the honorable member Khan Bahadur Gabol also said “No”. Only Mr. Gazdar and Khan Bahadur Khuhro said “Yes”.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: No, Sir, this is a misstatement. I will cite his own members as witnesses. I was bound with my party, and that I would not give my independent opinion.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The honorable member will avoid names.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: In that case Sardar Patel was very clear. I had no doubt in my mind at that time, nor is there any doubt left in my mind now. . . . . . . .
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Question. Did he accept. . . . . .
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: No interruptions, please. I had no doubts left in my mind that the members of the League had formed the League with the distinct object of capturing offices. If, however, it was a question of achieving solidarity of the Muslims of securing stability of the Government, nobody would have had anything to say against such laudable objects; and it is open to these honorable members even now to come and occupy these benches. There is nothing to prevent them from having, if they so wish, stability or solidarity of Muslims. But no, Sir, such were not their intentions. Offices they want, Sir, and there’s no gainsaying that. And, further, Sir, I think there is no stability in the sense in which my honorable friend SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID or Sir Ghulam Hussain has advised me.
Sir, it is easy to reply to the Honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain and in one word only. That advice which he gave to me at that time, he should give to himself now.
K. B. A. K. GABOL: It has been advised by me. (Laughter)
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: It is no use playing the same game, of which he was the victim and of which I perhaps might be some day. I do not deny that. Therefore, Sir, If the no –confidence motion is not to be treated lightly, may I ask him today that that advice which he gave me, he should apply to himself?
A Honorable Member: He did not support the motion.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: He did say he opposes the motion.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: Voting will show that.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Will the honorable member take long?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I shall try to finish as early as possible. We won’t take more than 15 to 20 minutes.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The Honorable Leader of the House might finish by quarter past 7.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Then, Sir, I come to the second part. I am accused of being an autocrat, a Hitler, acting independently and against the wishes of the parties supporting me. Well, Sir, I assure you and this Honorable House that I have no intention and never had any intention whatever of defying either the parties supporting me or this Honorable House. But I must explain the position briefly. The resentment, If I may say so, centered over the assessment proposals but, with regard to these proposals, I may say that I myself did not know exactly where I stood. Unfortunately in this part of the country at this time two scenes of a drama were being played. That was played during the regime of Sir Ghulam Hussain and that drama was being re-enacted during my tenure of office.
K. B. A. K. GABOL: You played openly.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: And the hero of that drama was my honorable friend Mr. G. M. Sayed. To tell you the honest truth, I knew nothing of what was happening behind the scenes –same as Sir Ghulam Hussain knew nothing of what happened behind the scenes. As the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain pointed out, the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed was dining with him that night and he did not suspect anything. He came in the morning and he was taken by surprise. Sir, such was my fate also. I honestly tell you I knew nothing of what was happening behind the scenes and perhaps certain of my actions did annoy the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed, but it is impossible to cope with his pace or to agree with his ideas. I may tell you one interesting instance. The honorable member Mr. Ghulam Murtaza Shah one day –I think it was at Sakrand or some other place, I do not remember where –received a complaint from some people that the police zulum was intolerable. He sends me an open telegram from there saying “It is a disagrace to support the present Ministry. I am ashamed.”
Mr. G. M. SAYED: A word of personal explanation. I had sent out 10 letters against the zulums of the police in Nawabshah, and the honorable the Chief Minster did not have the courtesy even to so acknowledge receipt of those letters. When I went to Nawabshah, so many people came and threw their turbans on my feet, and as an emotional man I was moved and sent the telegram and the telegram ran thus: “Nothing has been done about the police and I feel ashamed as supporter of Government which has not been able to do anything.”
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I can send for the copy of the telegram. They got annoyed. I knew nothing of what was happening. In the meantime they and a few of his friends decided between themselves to throw out the Ministry.
Mr. G. M. Sayed: That is wrong.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: One minute, please, The honorable member Makhdum Sahib will bear me out. I was silent. I repeat I knew nothing of what was happening behind the scenes.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: He is innocence personified.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: No interruption, please.
Before the orders on the assessment proposals were passed, I went to Sann. My honorable friend Mr. G. M. Sayed may or may not deny it. I can’t say that, because everything that I have said is now being denied. I went and told him, “Look here, Ghulam Murtaza Shah, these assessment proposals have to be tackled, and if the figures justify it, it is desirable that we should increase the assessment.” He was at first averse to my suggestions. Then I said “You know this is a deficit province. We have got to show our bona fides to subvention. Either we must satisfy the Government of India that there is no room for an increase of the assessment, looking to the present facts and figures, or, if it is found possible for the figures to justify the increase, we must to do so.” He then agreed.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: I deny that. I never said “Yes.” The second day honorable member Mr. Issardas Varindmal came to me and was going to increase the assessment. I said that I was definitely against it. Then I wrote honorable Mr. Nihchaldas a letter that we had worked together, and if the Chief Minister was bringing new taxes, it would be fatal to our party; I was definitely against that proposal and that Honorable Mr. Nihchaldas should tell him so.
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: (In Sindhi) The Honorable the Chief Minister met me on that day and told me that Shah Sahib told him that he had accepted.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: The Honorable P.W. D. Minister is here. You can ask him.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: I cannot ask him unless he rises himself.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Whatever the position was, I believe and honestly believe that the desire of my honorable friend Mr. Sayed was to throw out the Ministry, and perhaps he thought this was the best opportunity and the time to exploit the situation. So far as the position of my Congress friends is concerned, Sir, I do not think that I can lay any blame at their door. In the first instance, the Congress members asked me that before Government passed final orders, they should consult the members of this House, if not in the Assembly, at least outside the Assembly. I said “Yes.” I explained the position at that time to the Congress group, telling them that the assessment orders were the orders of the executive Government, and that if the orders were passed and if the House was dissatisfied, they could pass a vote of no-confidence in the Cabinet. But they gave me friendly advice that as it was the burning question of the day, it would be desirable to take the parties into confidence and that they, on their part, would not necessarily try to create any obstacles. I relied, Sir, on their promise as well as on the promise of my honorable friend Mr. Sayed, who now denies it. Accordingly, having come here, I fixed the date –I think it was the 12th or 14th. In the first instance I wanted it to be the 10th. Gradually I went on postponing thinking that my honorable friend Mr. Sayed would come round. His adherents, however, went on passing one resolution after another against the proposals. When the first resolution was passed –of which much is made by honorable friend Mr. Sayed –saying that the party has resolved that the assessment should be postponed, it is not a fact that I accepted that resolution. I made the position very clear at that time that it would not be possible for me to carry out that resolution, and that if they wished that the assessment proposals should be postponed, they would have to find another Minister. Then my honorable friend Mr. Ghulam Murtaza Shah told me that his party would be prepared to reconsider the matter. In the meantime, Sir, he communicated that decision to the Congress group. The Congress group was called me the same evening and asked me what the position was. They mentioned to me that they were not going to oppose me, but advised me that I should do what my party asked me to do and that when my party’s resolution was that the question should be postponed, it was in the fitness of things that I should accept that resolution. This was the first day’s resolution. In that evening we met the Congress group where the honorable member Mr. Sayed was present, and when they asked me . . . . . .. . . .
Mr. G. M. SAYED: I want to know where.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: At Dr. Choithram’s place where Acharya Kirpalani was present.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: We never met there, but at Mr. Jamshed’s place
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: That was later on.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: No, Sir, That is not correct.
(Several member got up and interrupted)
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: I find several honorable members getting up and talking. The reporter cannot take down 4 members at a time.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: I want to say, Sir. . . . .
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The Honorable member should rise only on a point of personal explanation.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I am not going to yield any more to these interruptions, Sir. Let me proceed.
Sir, I must say that there is no cohesion among the party and certainly there are no party principles. There is no doubt about that The whole difficulty was that something else was happening behind the scenes, the same as occurred during the regime of the honorable member Sir Ghulam Hussain and was being re-enacted during the tenure of my office. It is impossible for any Prime Minister not to succumb to such intrigue. I shall go further than that.
(At this stage the honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed stood up)
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The Honorable the chief Minister did not refer to the honorable member.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Very well, Sir, I will not refer to them.
As regards the assessment proposals, the honorable the mover of the Resolution says that if the members do not vote for the Resolution it means that they approve of the assessment proposals, whereas, if I have understood him a right, his grouse was. . . . . . .
SIR GHULAM HUSSAIN HIDAYATULLAH: He did not say that.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: He did say that.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: Then somebody else from the Opposition did say that.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: If that was the question, then he should have brought only one thing: the assessment proposals. But, truly speaking, that is not the position. The grievance is that the Ministers have passed assessment orders without the previous approval of their party. That is the real grouse. . . . . . .
Now, let us examine that position from the constitutional point of view. Is the revision of assessment proposals a tax or rent?
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Rent.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: If it is held that it is a tax.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir, I rise to a point of information.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: I do not want to yield to it now.
The question is whether it is a tax or a rent. If it is a tax, then no democratic Government, whether in India or outside India, would be prepared to disclose their taxation proposals before their parties. The parties cannot constitutionally ask Government to place their proposals for taxation before them. That is the constitutional position.
The Second question is: Is it a rent? If it is a rent, then it is to be periodically revised and there is nothing wrong about taking parties into confidence with regard to it. If they disagree, then the best course for the Ministers is to say that it is very difficult for them entirely to surrender their conscience to meet the wishes of the party members.
An Honorable Member from Congress Benches: And resign.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: That is the one the only position.
THE HONORABLE Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: Now, Sir, the position comes to this. I am being asked –or I am being censured –that before we pass our final orders, we must take the approval of the parties to what is, as I have explained, an executive order. That position, constitutionally no Minister can accept.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: On a point of information, Sir.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: Sir, I am not going to yield.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir, the Minister has written to us letters asking for opinion.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSH: You should have impeached us at that time.
Now, Sir, we are asked that before passing final orders it must be established as a convention that the parties should be consulted beforehand. I should have been very glad if the honorable the mover of the Resolution had come forward and said “ I accept this constitutional position –that it is an executive order, but, if the House comes to the conclusion that order is not proper, then the Ministry should be censure on that point. The Honorable the mover of the Resolution contends that we must take prior approval to the passing of the order. He is not prepared to discuss the merits of that order, or, if he finds that order is wrong, to bring in a censure motion against the Government on that count. I would appreciate it if the honorable member said that particular rates of assessment should not be imposed. I could accept that position. But what I am being censured for is because I have not consulted the parties previously before passing those orders, which are, however, subject to modification, and it is therefore, they feel that I deserve to be censured.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: They are merely tentative orders.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: The honorable member SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID and Sir Ghulam Hussain are accepting a principle, which is constitutionally not correct that, upon a matter which is an executive order of Government, I must take the attitude which my party wishes me to take; and therefore they feel that I have acted like an autocrat, like Hitler. I am not at this juncture going to stand on any prestige. If I have to remain in office, I have got to carry out the wishes of my party or to go out.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: Quite right.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: That is the constitutional practice.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: One Minute, please, I am coming to that.
After taking the party into confidence, if I feel that the advice tendered by my party is such that it will not be possible for me to accept it, then I feel that I have got no alternative but to go away. I am prepared, on my honorable friends may find convenient, to provide an opportunity for discussing the assessment proposals on their merits. The idea that I was defying my party was far from my intentions. If I knew that a game was going to be played, -a straight deal –I would have certainly done as my party would have desired me to do. I make no secret about it. But here the question is one man’s word against another’s. The honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed says “No”, I say “Yes.” Therefore the best thing is to drop that the line of argument. But I can assure this Honorable House that it is very far from my intention either no to revise these proposals or not to carry out the wishes of my parties”, I include the Congress group also in those parties. I have no desire to exclude the Congress group because I know the Congress are in the right. The Wardha resolution to which a reference was made is not wrong. When Moulana Abul Kalam Azad and Sardar Patel both came here, they were given an impression that the present Ministry had no following of Mahomedans and that the Congress group was there to divide Mahomedans and run the administration of this Province with the combination of Hindu group and a small section of Mahomedans. The merits of the assessment proposals were crowded out. These high politicians like Moulana Abul Kalam Azad and Sardar Vallabhai Patel of the Working Committee did not enter into the merits of the assessment proposals but only considered their position in all-India politics. When I was discussing with Moulana Abul Kalam Azad, I told him”Moulana, what are you doing? You are wrong. You should try to support us. The assessment proposals are good”. He said: “They may be good. I have no time to examine them. The thing is that I am not looking at the question from that point of view. I am looking at it entirely from a different point of view, which is how the position of Sind politics would stand as compared to all –India politics”. I felt that, at that time, there was no doubt left in mind of Moulana Abul Kalam Azad that I had no backing of Mahomedans. That was the position then.
The second point was that, rightly or wrongly, they got the impression that I had defied my party in that, a certain resolution passed by the party was not carried out by me and that was against the principles of democracy. Therefore they imposed two conditions. One of the conditions was that either I should carry out the wishes of the parties, that is to say, I should give effect to a resolution passed by them that land revenue proposals should be postponed for one year; or prefer an attitude of neutrality by them. They said : We remain neutral and let the fight be between you and the League so that the Congress may not be accused of dividing the Mussalmans”. That was precisely the exact position which the Congress took from the point of view of all –India politics. But certainly from my point of view it was wrong, because I came into office with their support and it was not proper for them suddenly to tell me to accept either one alternative or the other. But even for that, I will not blame them, because they did not know that there were two scenes being played on one stage. They took everything at its face value. Therefore, I am not blaming the Congress. Both their conditions were justifiable, and today the time have come to prove whether I am right or wrong as the fate of the Ministry is going to be decided now. It will be seen now whether the Congress has divided the Mahomedas or not. It is not going to vindicate my position only, but it is going to vindicate the position of the Congress as well because I shall show them that the Congress are not dividing the Mahomedans. That one charge against the Congress is wiped out, and I think for that the Congress should be thankful to me.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Will the Honorable the Leader of the House conclude soon?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Yes, Sir.
Then I come to the impressive speech of my honorable friend Khan Bahadur Khuhro.
Mr. G. M. SAYED: Sir, he has taken more than half an hour allotted by you.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: I never fixed a time-limit in the case of any honorable member. All the same I have requested him to conclude his speech soon.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I am sorry, Sir, that my honorable friend Mr. Gazdar is not here. But I request his comrade honorable member SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID, who has on occasions like this established a convention, to kindly follow that convention now. Honorable member Mr. Gazdar got up and in certain respects he was supported by SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID as well as by my honorable friend Mr. Sayed when he said :”Dissolve the Assembly. Let us go back to the electorate.” And for what? To test the confidence they enjoy. On a previous occasion when there were riots in Karachi I think my honorable friend SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID and honorable member Mr. Gazdar both resigned to get approval to a certain policy advocated by them. May I request to repeat the again?
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: If the Honorable the Chief Minister resigns, I am going to resign from my constituency and put myself up against him in his own constituency. This is my challenge.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: One minute, Sir. I have no objection to accept that challenge. Not that I am afraid.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: Practice that yourself.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I am going to do that and I am prepared to resign. The honorable member should listen to me. First of all, he is the representative of a particular constituency. Now let us test that first –whether he has got the confidence of that constituency or not. If he comes out in flying colors from his own constituency, I shall be prepared to resign my seat and then he can come and contest my seat.
Now I come to certain charges which have been brought by honorable member Khan Bahadur Khan Khuhro, and I think some charges were leveled by certain other member also. What are those charges?
The first charge they levied against us was that we had used the help of the executive to consolidate our position.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: There is too much noise in the gallery.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I have made that position very clear that there is no desire or intention on the part of Government to do so. The honorable member has given certain instances and I say I shall make enquires. In the first instance, I do not want to waste the time of the House, but I shall write and ask him, if not openly, at least confidentially, to give me the name of the members, and then I shall communicate with him as to what the position is and whether those charges are true or untrue. If the honorable member, notwithstanding this assurance, is not satisfied, I am perfectly willing to make enquiries which will satisfy this Honorable House. I can go no further than that.
Then, Sir, there were certain charges made by my honorable friend Khan Bahadur Khuhro and other members saying that we have created the posts of Deputy Secretary, Revenue Department, and a special officer to go into the Jagir question. Well, Sir, I leave that question for the House to judge for themselves. I will content myself with saying only this much. Prior to the separation of Sind, the Revenue Commissioner had 6,000 cases and now it has risen to 33,000.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: On a point of order, Sir. The Honorable Member is justifying the appointments. The charge against him is that he has not obtained the sanction of the Assembly. When he brings a supplementary grant, he can fully at that time raise all these points.
An Honorable MEMBER: HE is doing next month.
THE HONORBALE THE SPEAKER: The honorable member should know that the honorable the Leader of the House and all of us are old legislators. We have seen that it is usual for the Government to always make appointments in advance and then bring token grants.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I know my financial responsibilities. It is not for the honorable member to get up and teach me.
The question is, would the House advise me, if the number of cases go in excess of 6000 and if the Commissioner is not able to dispose of those cases to postpone the issue? Will they allow the work to be accumulated? Certainly not, Sir. The point is that I am perfectly prepared to overhaul the whole machinery in such a way that there should be no accumulation of those cases, but if the cases are there, seeing that the number remains at the present level, there is no alternative but to continue the post. Then, Sir, he referred to the appointment of Deputy Secretary, Finance Department. I can straightaway explain to honorable members that the post of the Finance Secretary to Government is such that Government cannot immediately depute one or other I. C. S. officer to take up the post. We require, and so does every Government require, an expert to handle Finance. He should be an expert having technical knowledge and special training in that particular subject. We made an enquiry from the Government of Bombay and there was none available. We even approached the Government of India whether It would be possible to suggest somebody as successor to Mr. Clee. I will read the letter which we received from the Government of India and leave the House to judge the position for themselves.
“Your letter of 30th June 1938, about a successor to yourself. We are prepared to do everything we can in this direction to help Sind or Bombay. I must point out, however, that Bombay has been exceedingly costive about offering suitable men for the Finance and Commerce pool, where we should have paid for their training.
2. I completely agree with what I deduce to be your view, viz, that to put and officer without any previous or even without any fairly considerable previous experience in Finance as Finance Secretary in Sind, would be almost criminal.
3. In existing circumstances the best I can suggest is that the man chosen to succeed you should do 3 or 4 months’ training in the office of the Accountant General, Bombay, and 3 or 2 month as sort of attaché in your own office. We would be prepared to have such a man as attaché in this office for part of the time. I don’t however recommend this course, for an attaché is at the best expected to knows about much on his own, while in the cold weather officers of this department are too busy to give attention to attaché’s. In any event the cost of the pay and allowances of the officer would be matter for Sind and Bombay to fight out amongst themselves. We should not pay.”
Then, Sir, another charge which has been leveled is about the appointment of Khan Bahadur Nur Nabi. Honorable member know that there are a member of bills before the House is from the honorable member Prof. Ghanshyamdas. There has of late been agitation by those Mourusi haris against the Jagirs especially in the Hyderabad District, and, Sir, that movement is gaining strength in the Province. I think it is highly desirable that a solution should be found to meet the situation and Government should come to a conclusion. Unless they get proper data before them, and, if necessary, to legislate, to avoid any future trouble and conflict between the haris and khatedars, how can they move? I do think that any honorable member of this House would accuse Government of creating that post. Sir, members might think that it would have been better if we had appointed a Deputy Collector to the post, but looking to the nature of the question that the fight is between two big parties, big jagirdars on the one hand and the haris on the other, we did not think it was advisable to appoint an officer of the lesser status of Collector, and therefore we appointed an officer who will be able to go into this complicated question thoroughly.
I will now take 10 minutes more only, Sir.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: Does the House wish to sit for a few minutes longer? Has the honorable member from the European group any objection if we sit up to 8 o’clock?
Lt. Col. W. B. HOSSACK: If it is all over by 8 o’clock, we do not mind.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Then, Sir, certain charges were made by the honorable member Mr. Gazdar. He said that there was a motor car accident where the chauffeur of the car in which I was travelling was involved, and the chauffeur after giving for that, the magistrate was transferred to Larkana. (Laughter). I think it is most wicked to think of the matter in those terms. In the first instance, Sir, it was not my car. Neither was the accused my chauffeur. It was nothing of the sort.
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: Nor were you there in the car?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I was in the car. But that does not mean that if I was in the car, the driver should not be prosecuted.
An Honorable MEMBER: Was he prosecuted?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Yes, he was prosecuted. If the court acquitted him, I cannot answer for that. I might straightaway explain here why the court acquitted him. The cycle which came under accident had not only no brakes, but even the handle of the cycle was not working. The cyclist tried to move this way and that way, and the car went straight on. And the accident happened. Whatever that may be transferred from one station to another? The transfer was hardly a reward.
An Honorable Member: He was made a Deputy Collector.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: But he was already a City Magistrate, in the grade of Deputy Collector. Whether he works as a City Magistrate or Deputy Collector, he enjoys the same official position and status as a Deputy Collector.
SHAIKH ABDUL MAJID: On a point of information, Sir. I want to know whether the prosecution was filled by the police or by the heirs of the deceased who died as a result of the accident.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I do not know. If however, the honorable member so wishes, I can write and get the information.
The next charge that is leveled against me is that I get favors not only for myself but for my friends.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: May I point out, Sir, That the honorable member Mr. Gazdar is absent now? He cited some 20 to 30 charges. It is impossible for the honorable the Chief Minister to reply them at length even up to 9 p.m. or beyond that time. How long are we going to sit, Sir? If he wants to reply to all the charges –which are all in print –he can write to Mr. Gazdar after he returns from Haj and explain the position. None from the Opposition can challenge the reply of the Honorable the Chief Minister as we are not in possession of full facts to do so.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I am sorry, Sir, You remember, Sir, yesterday when the honorable member Khan Bahadur KHuhro was resuming his seat he said “Here are the charges, and I am prepared to repeat them at the Khalikdina Hall and he passed on those charges to honorable member Mr. Gazdar.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: How do you say that?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I am sorry, Sir, But I thought that is what was done by the honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro.
I have noted down the charges seriatim, and I should like to refer to them. The next charge is that I get concessions not only for myself but also for my friends. Reference was made to my friend, Mr. Pahlajsingh. It was said that he had purchased 500 jirebs of land at a concessional rate. Government have wired and got the information from the Collector of Sukkur which says that in the project it was provided that 9000 acres of Government waste land were available for sale. Kutcheries after Kutcheries were held but no one was coming forward to purchase those lands, the sale upto date being 566 acres only.
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: Out of 9000 acres?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Yes. The total sale during the last 4 years is only 566 acres out of 9000 acres. The principle is that Government lands are available at full market value, and anybody can come forward and purchase them. No concessions are involved. Only preference is given to the neighboring zamindar. I do not know what the position is, but the change has not been leveled against the purchaser that the price which he has paid is below the market value. If that is the charge, I know nothing about it. I do not know the nature of the land, or what its price is or whether anybody else wanted to purchase it. But I can make detailed inquiries as to whether the full market value was paid by the purchaser or not, and the inquiries will prove whether the full market value was paid or not.
Then, Sir, they said that I had purchased certain lands and sold certain others. The lands were purchased by me long before I came into office and I can assure my honorable by me long before I came into office, and I can assure my honorable friends that no concession was made in the price demanded of me for the lands. Even now of any of the honorable members desire to go and see the site and verify themselves about the truth of my statement, they are welcomed to do so. It is no use going on mere hearsay, because in this part of the country people do not hesitate to throw mud at anybody. What I would request my honorable friend Khan Bahadur Khuhro or any other member who knows something of the agricultural lands is to go and see the lands for themselves and then come back and either tell me or any member of this House whether there was any concession made in the lands which were purchased by me long ago. I have never received any concession, nor is there any desire on my part to receive lands at concessional rates; and of course there is no restriction on the M.L.A.’s to purchase them.
Dr. POPATLAL A. BHOOTPATKAR: At concession?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: No concession is involved and I categorically deny that any concession were made.
Then Sir, it has been advanced that I have released certain prisoners, which forms yet another part of the charges leveled against me. I do not know what the honorable member meant. But obliviously the interference is that somebody influenced the Minister. They referred, is particular, to one Santdas Khanchand Mirchandani, and much was made of his release. I will explain the position very briefly as to why this man was released. In the first instance the I.G.P. recommended his release. He stated that his health was bad, that further detention in jail might prove serious and that therefore the prisoner should be released.
Mr. ISSARDAS VARINDMAL: Who was the I. G. P.?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: I do not know. Who the I. G. P. was, is not a matter of importance. Government in the first instance did not agree with that recommendation. We returned the application of the prisoner’ wife to the medical officer, Hyderabad Central Prison, and asked the Inspector –General of prisons to go personally to Hyderabad and find out what the position was, and whether the man should be released or not. His report is there, and, Sir, he did recommend that the man should be released. But that recommendation was not accepted by Government. We asked the I. G. P. to state clearly whether there was any danger to the prisoner’s life if he was detained in the jail. Here is the note of the Home Secretary. I shall read it. “From the I. G. P.’s letter it is clear that there is no immediate danger to the life of this person. It is true that his health is very poor, and that he would feel much better at home than in jail. However, as he has been convicted of offences under Sections 409, 420 read with 120-B, I. P. C. and sentenced to 12 months’ rigorous imprisonment, and a fine of Rs. 500 or in default six months’ rigorous imprisonment on the 29th April last only, I do not think it will be advisable to release him at this stage. His premature release would create a bad precedent , especially as he has been convicted of offences of cheating and criminal breach of trust.” When we first received the recommendation for release from I. G. P. , I said “No, -unless there was immediate danger to the prisoner’s life.” And I have just read out the note made by the Home Secretary after the report from the I. G. P. But I said “No, we are not going to release him.” The papers were accordingly returned, and I asked the Inspector-General of Prisons to report further in the matter if he thought there was danger to his life. The report came in due course, but even then Government did not agree with that report. Government stipulated that he should pay the fine before he was released. But ultimately it was found that he was not in a position to pay the fine, and that there was immediate danger to his life, and so he was released. It is thus clear from the papers that if there had been any influence or any wire-pulling, as is insinuated, Government would have, on receipt of the first letter of recommendation from the Inspector General of Prisons, passed orders releasing him. But before passing the orders, Government made through inquiries in the case and were completely satisfied that the case was such aht there was immediate danger to his life, and then only was he released.
Then a reference was made to certain other prisoners who were released prematurely. One was Hemomal son of Gelomal to which the honorable member Shaikh Shaeb also referred. Sir, the principle hitherto followed has been that Government tries to give such prisoners as have served more than their sentence, their liberty, provided their behavior in the jail has been good. Before Government takes any such step, they call for the report from the Chairman of the Advisory Committee of the Jail in the District and the District Magistrate. Mr. Bhat at that time was the Chairman and he was also the District Magistrate. He recommended the premature release of this prisoner, saying that the young man was feeble and that it would be desirable that the ordinary rules should apply and he should be released. There was nothing extraordinary done in that case, and I can assure the House that there was absolutely no influence of any kind brought to bear on the Ministry. The cases have been decided on their own merits.
Then, Sir, a reference was made to the “EKTA” case, in which it was said that the Editor of the paper was on friendly terms with the Honorable the Revenue Minister and that because of that influence, the case against him was withdrawn. Before I knew anything about the Editor or whether he was of the opinion that it was wrong in principle that Editors of newspapers should be prosecuted under Section 182, Indian Penal Code. This is what I wrote at that time, not knowing who the Editor was:
“I wish this case had not been filed. I have every sympathy for the officers concerned, but considering the vague and the general nature of the allegations made, a prosecution under Section 182, I. P. C., might be, and in this case has been, regarded as an undue interference with the liberty of the press. If the offcers concerned felt aggrieved, they would have been permitted to file a defamation case of their own and no objection could have been taken to that procedure. The case has lingered on for more than 2 years and I think it is time that the proceedings were brought to an end, if necessary by withdrawing the case.
Without referring to this case, I may say on general principles that Section 182, I.P.C., should not in future be resorted to. Although I am conscious that Government servants should be adequately protected from false and malicious complaints, yet I think that complaints in respect of offences under this section should be made very sparingly. I would, therefore, suggest that in future no such complaints should be filed except after previous reference to Government in the Home Department.
This note is dated 4th of June.
The case was withdrawn on different grounds. As I said, though we have not come to any definite conclusion as to what course we should follow in future, -whether before filing prosecution under Section 182, I.P. C., the prior approval of Government should be obtained or not, -still on principle I find that it would be suppressing the liberty of the Press by resorting to prosecution under Section 182, I.P.C.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: As a matter of fact, I Have turned down sanction for several prosecution and there were cases in which a Hindu paper was involved.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Then, Sir, a grievance was made by the honorable member K. B. KHUHRO and other members that they had put certain questions but had received no reply. They said that the Ministers had wired through the Collector to certain M. L. A’s to be present. Now, Sir, the reply to that question was sent long ago to the Assembly Office. It will come before the House in due time, but I do not know in what book it is printed. I cannot know whether any particular question is more urgent than any other. The question and reply is as follows:
Will the Government be pleased to state :-
(a) Whether it is a fact that the Home Department Secretary of Sind Government sent a telegram to the Collector of Larkana on the 25th August asking him to send M. L. As., viz. K. B. Haji Amir Ali Lahori and Wadero Mahomed Khan Chandio, to Karachi as their presence was required by Government at Karachi ?
(b) If the answer is in the affirmative, for what purpose were they called?
(c) Whether they were called by Chief Minister with a view to accompanying him to Moulana Abul Kalam Azad on the 27th at Sharda Mandir to show to him that the present Ministry has a larger following among the Muslims>
(a) Under mu instruction the Secretary, Home Department sent telegram to the Collector of Larkana on the 26th August asking him inform Mir Muhammad Khan Chandio and Khan Bahadur Amir Ali that I desired them to arrive at Karachi by the next available train.
(b) The persons concerned were requested to come to Karachi to discuss with me the political situation arising out of the orders passed for the revision of the assessment of agricultural lands in the Barrage area.
(c) They were taken by me to have a discussion with Moulana Abul Kalam Azad in order to acquaint the Moulana with the feelings of a section of the Muslim zamindars.
Sir, if that telegram is interpreted to mean that I asked the Collector that he should influence them, I say “Definitely No”. If such was my intention, I should not have sent an open telegram. Is it any offence or anything wrong, if I asked somebody to inform, say, honorable member K. B. Khuhro or the honorable member Mr. Ghanshyam to come?
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Can’t you wire them direct?
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: If you think it is wrong, I am perfectly prepared to admit it and say that I won’t do it. But I have done it innocently.
I had no bad intention. I never dreamt that such a telegram could ever be misinterpreted. I thought that they, specially Mir Muhammad Khan Chandio, being far away, a message sent in this way would reach them conveniently. I never meant that the Collector should call them, or tell them to go and influence them.
THE HONORABLE THE SPEAKER: The honorable the Leader of the House should come to an end now.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Sir, I am sorry there is no time, otherwise I would prefer to reply to every charge. Since the House presses me to conclude, I have no objection to resume my seat.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Is the honorable mover withdrawing his motion?
Mr. G. M. SAYED: No, Sir.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The question before the House is the no –confidence motion moved by honorable member Mr. G. M. Sayed against the Honorable Khan Bahadur Allah Bakhsh, the Chief Minister.
Question put and motion declared lost.
Division can be claimed by any member-Speaker’s Ruling.
The Honorable Mr. NIHCHALDAS C. VAZIRANI: Division, Sir.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: The honorable the mover does not call for a division.
The Honorable K. B. ALLAH BAKHSHI: Sir, with due deference to the Chair, I submit that if any honorable member wishes to ask for a division, in order that the member should be recorded, the Chair cannot refuse that.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Sir, the division is to be claimed by the side of “Ayes” and not by the side of “Noes”.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: In the rules it is laid down that any member can claim a division.
Now the tellers will be honorable member Mr. Fraser and honorable member Khan Bahadur Khuhro for the “Ayes”.
K. B. M. A. KHUHRO: Sir, will you kindly put somebody else in my place as I have to earlier?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: All right, then honorable member Mr. Bechar for the “Ayes”, and honorable member Mr. Sidhwa.
Mr. R. K. SIDHWA: Sir, why do you put me?
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: I am putting you because you are independent.
And honorable member Mr. Muhammad Amin Khoso for the “Noes”.
3.Ghulam Murtaza ShahMuhammad Shah Sayed,Mr.
4. Jenubai Ghulamali Allana, Mrs.
5.Khair Shah Imam Ali Shah Sayed, Mr.
6. Muhammad Ayub Shah Muhammad Khan Khuhro, K.B
7.Nur Muhammad Shah Murad Ali Shah Sayed,Mr.
1. Abdus Sattar Abdul Rahman, Mr.
2. Akhji Ratansing Sodho, Mr.
3. Allah Bakhsh Khudadadkhan Gabol, K.B.
4. Allah Bakhsh Muhammad Umer, Honorable K.B.
5. Arbab Togachi Mir Muhammad, Mr.
6.Dialmal Doulatram, Mr.
7. Doulatram Mohandas, Mr.
8. Ghanumal Tarachand, Mr.
10. Ghulam Haider Makhdum Sahibdino Shah, Pir.
11. Gobindram Pritamdas, Mukhi.
12. Gokaldas Mewaldas, R.S.
13 Hemandas Rupchand Wadhwani, Dr.
14. Hotchand Hiranand, R. B.
15. Hossack, Lt. Col., W.B.
16. Illahi Bakhsh, Honorable Pir.
17. Jaffer Khan Gul Muhammad Khan Burdi, K.S.
18. Jamshed Nusserwanjee Mehta, Mr.
19. Jan Muhammad Khan Muhmmad Sharif Junejo Jam, S.B.
20. Kaiser Khan Ghulam Muhammad Khan, K.B.
21. Mahon, H. J., Col.
22. Muhammad Ali Shah Allahando Shah Sayed, Mr.
23. Muhammad Khan Nawab Ghaibi Khan Chandio.
24. Muhammad Usman Muhammad Khan Sumro. Mr.
26. Nihchaldas C. Vazirani, Honorable Mr.
27. Mr. J Fraser.
28. Partabrai Khaisukhdas, Mr.
29. Rasul Bakhsh Shah Mahbub Shah, K. S.,Pir.
30. Shamsuddin Khan Abdul Kabir Khan, Mr.
31. Sitaldas Perumal, Mr.
32. Sohrab Khan Sahibdino Khan Sarki, K.S.
No-confidence Motion : Result of Division.
The Honorable THE SPEAKER: Order, order.
The result of the division is as under:-
There are 7 for the Ayes, and 32 for the Noes. The motion is lost. (cheers).
The House will rise till 3 o’clock tomorrow.